Beware!! Compulsory boat reregistration - Portugal

[david36]

According to the town hall finance department of Lagos, Portugal, anyone intending to keep their boat in Portugal for a total of more than 183 days in any one year needs to be aware of a new regulation recently published to municipal tax offices in Portugal. In effect the new regulation is that after a total of 183 days in any one year, boats belonging to non residents of Portugal must be reregistered under the flag of Portugal as well as paying the appropriate local taxes. Obviously there are many implications , as yet incompletely understood, regarding the impact on licences, inspections etc etc. This decision seems to have come out of the blue to Port Captains, tax offices, marina operators etc and has been greeted by some dismay. It also seems to be completely contrary to EU regulation, as recently acknowledged by Spain in her regulation of boats belonging to non residents there. However, that is probably no reason to doubt the likelyhood of an attempt to impose such a situation. How vigorously this will be implemented remains unknown. However, anyone with plans for a long term stay in Portugal might care to make early plans for an alternative unless they fancy a change of flag for their boat. Also anticipate an early exodus of boats from Portugal. Don't say in the future that you have not been warned!

 

[ccscott49]

They tried this before a few years ago, when I was there, I just said I was a british registered vessel, in another EU country and they had no right to impose anything of the sort. That was to the port authorities in Lagos, they were only mentioning it in passing, but I never hgeard another word, just the same as the cruising tax in Greece, the tax in Sardinia, the safety inspections in Spain, they are just trying it on. Be aware, but mass exodus? I think not.

 

[orizaba]

are you sure its the boats they are talking about registering?in nazare in march the original customs (guardia fiscal) i think.
their job was taken over by another lot from the immigration ie at airport control,there was then talk that if you stayed on your boat longer than ?days you had to apply for residency,as usual one dept doesn't know what the other is doing and try to apply rules that are pre eec or do not have anything to do with yachts as they are usually classed as in transit.we also found one set of rules,forms in one place,none in another,no consistancy,remember tho the government is bankcrupt like the uk and looking for ways to increase revenue. but as above max exodus ,i don't think so

 

[david36]

Yes, its the boats that they are talking about. And who said anything about "mass exodus"?. My words in the original post were "early exodus". In any event, if this madness comes to pass, then I have no doubt that there will be an exodus (early or mass) of boats from Portugal to the detriment of the marine economy of the ill fated country of Portugal.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Are you sure the rule applies to the boat?

I ask because there has been a long standing EU rule about tax residence for individuals - if an individual is resident in an EU country for longer than 183 days a year, then they become a tax resident of that country. That includes living on a yacht. Not easy to police . . .

One side effect of this is that mobile assets kept by that person in the country (cars, boats, caravans) must be re-registered in that country.

There is often an assumption (with cars) that if the vehicle has been in the country for longer than 183 days, then the onus of proof is on you to show that you have not been in the country with the car . . .

 

[samwise]

Portuguese Nobel prizewinning author Jose Scaramango said this week that Portugal was certain be swallowed up by Spain. "Inevitable," he said. without giving a timescale. Even if it happened I'll bet there will still be "local applications" of rules and regulations! Scaramango has already made his choice, he lives on Lanzarote.

 

[david36]

Yes, it applies to the boat. As you say, there are other rules which apply to the person(s).

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
They tried this before a few years ago, when I was there, I just said I was a british registered vessel, in another EU country and they had no right to impose anything of the sort. That was to the port authorities in Lagos, they were only mentioning it in passing, but I never hgeard another word,

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was approached officially, rather than just in passing, I would be somewhat worried that they have the power to make life difficult for me, if not the right, if I didnt comply. In this example, I would almost certainly get the hell out of there at the earliest opportunity.

No country has the right to my prescence and my money, so if they make life difficult, they can stuff it - I'll go and spend it elsewhere.

If enough people did that they might think "Oops, we dropped a bit of a bollock there - forgot we relied on tourists for a large chunk of our income".

having said that, when we get to Malta, I would be happy if they forced me to become resident on day 1!

 

[ccscott49]

Been to Malta lots have we Richard? I have twice a month for ten years for four days at a time. Will stop in when heading to the ionian, but residency??? Not really.
Just watch the prices rise when they adopt the Euro, just as the prices have risen in Evry country that adopted it, some quite drastically.

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
Been to Malta lots have we Richard?

[/ QUOTE ]

Never <g> but they have some tax agreements with the UK which will save me a lot of money, (to me). The alternatives are Monaco, Gibraltar and Cyprus.

I may not want to live there all the time, (alternatively, we might love it - each to his own and all that), but becoming a resident would be bloody handy.

 

[FAITIRA]

They gave us a fright in 2000 in Portimao, we went to the local tax office they were not a bit interested, "you are in the EEC" the bod said, not a problem. as regards cars, we used to drive over to Spain keep the visa tab, that was us, been out of the country. We lived there for 5 years with no great probs and a lot of very happy memories. Don,t panic!

 

[Grehan]

This is, of course, very like the situation in Spain.
If you <u>and</u> your boat spend more than 183 days (? - as far as I know the figure is not actually in the legislation) in total in any year in Spanish waters, then you are deemed to have become a Spanish (tax) resident with the requirement to import your vessel into Spain, pay the appropriate tax (14% in most places)(this is not VAT), register it as Spanish, etc etc.
www.telefonica.net/web2/grehan/isdmt/
That's what the ISDMT law says (to the best of my knowledge . . ) but, like Portugal, many people, many officials, either do not know the law, or choose not to enforce it. The Sword of Damocles result is a combination of blissful ignorance, trepidation, confusion and, it seems at the end of the day, not that many people actually being 'hit'.
Various people have suggested that this is all against EU Law, or somesuch, but faced with a Precinto notice impounding your boat until the tax is paid, or the situation otherwise sorted out, arguing European Law might be a very long game indeed.

 

[jimbaerselman]

[ QUOTE ]
Various people have suggested that this is all against EU Law, or somesuch

[/ QUOTE ] 'Residence' for tax purposes is clearly defined throughout the EU. It is a matter of fact: if you spend more than 183 day in any one country in a year (now that is a matter of definition - calendar year? tax year?) then you come under the taxation rules of that country.

And that includes such provisions as requiring your capital assets in the country (again, a matter of defintion, but usually including cars and often boats) being registered in that country.

But, as commented by others, it is not easy for the authorities to establish the tax facts . . . since we cross borders without documentation. So, assumptions are made, and you have to dig your way out of those.

So if you arrive in your Uk registered car at Patras on 1 May, and turn up after the end of October to catch your ferry to Ancona, there's a presumption that you're due to be fined . . . if you're caught.

Same idea can be applied to yachts in Portugal - or Spain.

 

[richardwatson]

There was much talk of this when I was in Mallorca two years ago. Many people were taking it seriously as the Adjuntament de Palma had become very adept at extracting euros and slapping denuncements on little used summer toys. Does anyone know if it has actually started to happen?