Beta 20 Gear Box Oil Drain Prlg Just Spins...

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

I forgot to fit the copper washer on the drain plug when I change the oil of my Beta 20 gear box, then wound it up as usual and now it just spins.

Can't work out how to get it out again.....

I can get a ring spanner or a socket on it fairly easily to turn it, but I won't turn it by hand.
So I can turn it, or pull it, but not both.

Not sure if it is leaking, so I have left a bowl under it to catch any drips. However, will not be really sure until after lift in when I can run the engine.

Any suggestions on getting it out without removing the engine!


The boat is a Westerly Griffon -
Photos attached.

 

[macd]

1. Have you asked Beta? They're generally very helpful.
2. Many of us don't enjoy the luxury of being able to use a drain plug: we just suck old oil out through the filler hole.
3. If a drain plug 'just spins', it's very poorly.
4. If necessary, you can probably unbolt the box from the engine: no need to remove the whole lot. But you're not necessarily at that stage quite yet.
Is that a ZF box? Can't see any drawings for a similar one on Beta's website for the current 20hp (other than the Z drive, which yours clearly isn't).

 

[alahol2]

Is there room to hold, pull and turn with a small pair of molegrips?

 

[sutton sailor]

You could try to use a thin screw driver, and push it between the head of the plug and the gearbox, then turn the plug with a spanner.

 

[<152587>]

Sounds as though it has either wound in past the relief at the end of the thread (unlikely) or the thread has stripped. Would suspect a gearbox removal to retap/restore thread.
Probably best to bite the bullet and remove soonest as any bodging around could cause further detriment.

 

[chrishelen]

Sounds as though it has either wound in past the relief at the end of the thread (unlikely) or the thread has stripped. Would suspect a gearbox removal to retap/restore thread.
Probably best to bite the bullet and remove soonest as any bodging around could cause further detriment.

Good access there without removing the g/box, should be able to get a tap in hole once the bolt is out, I would try turning and pulling with molegrips,or try getting a thin screw driver in prising as you turn the bolt.
Good luck.

 

[earlybird]

If you do need to remove the gearbox, which sounds probable for a full repair, then the engine needs to be lifted off the rear mountings. The flywheel cover can then be removed along with the gearbox..
This exposes the heads of 4 bolts which fasten the gearbox to the cover.
This is based on my B662/ Hurth engine, but I think should also apply to the B722.
Given access, re-tapping in situ is a possibility I suppose, but very hard to avoid a drunken thread which will be a PITA to seal, and also require an over-sized plug, unless you manage a Helicoil:- difficult!!
I think that I'd be tempted to permanently block the drain hole somehow and invest in an oil-drain pump.

 

[Burnham Bob]

if it's not leaking suggest you just leave it and change the oil with a suction pump through the filler hole when the next change is due.............to paraphrase the old saying if it ain't (functionally) broke.......etc

that is assuming of course it isn't leaking but you should find out pretty quickly

 

[macd]

Given access, re-tapping in situ is a possibility I suppose, but very hard to avoid a drunken thread which will be a PITA to seal, and also require an over-sized plug, unless you manage a Helicoil:- difficult!!
I think that I'd be tempted to permanently block the drain hole somehow and invest in an oil-drain pump.

+1
But if you do take the box out, a machine shop should be able to throw in a thread insert in no time at all.

 

[Niffler]

if it's not leaking suggest you just leave it and change the oil with a suction pump through the filler hole when the next change is due.............to paraphrase the old saying if it ain't (functionally) broke.......etc

that is assuming of course it isn't leaking but you should find out pretty quickly

And could you seal the bolt in with liquid metal and then just change as suggested?

 

[<152587>]

Amazed at all the suggestions of bodges on this forum, no wonder the RNLI is busy. Be reminded there ain't any hard shoulder on a lee shore when the gearbox has shed its oil!

 

[RichardS]

Amazed at all the suggestions of bodges on this forum, no wonder the RNLI is busy. Be reminded there ain't any hard shoulder on a lee shore when the gearbox has shed its oil!

It will take a long time do it any harm. I ran a second hand car for a year which had a split across the gearbox sump plate and when I tried to fill it the gear oil just ran out. I sold it 10,000 miles later still running sweetly!

Richard

 

[parbuckle]

Worth spending some time trying to unscrew maybe with a stanley knife blade wedged tightly into gap using a tack hammer to find a good piece of thread. The casing is aluminium alloy so care is needed on a job like this . If you are confident enough to remove the G/box it would be a lot safer if you have to drill and tap the casting as could cost over £1000 to renew. It may be worth getting a quote from engineer it should not take more than a couple of hours to remove the box but they may want half a day. ZF Marine have a parts list and manual online for most of their models .http://www.bukh-bremen.de/files/346/upload/Hersteller/ZF/Reparaturanleitung%20u%20Ersatzteilliste%20ZF3M%20bis%20ZF30M%20mechanisch.pdf

 

[VicS]

It will take a long time do it any harm. I ran a second hand car for a year which had a split across the gearbox sump plate and when I tried to fill it the gear oil just ran out. I sold it 10,000 miles later still running sweetly!

Richard

You cannot be seriously suggesting that the OP ignores the problem and even allows the gear box to run dry if all the oil leaks out!

 

[RichardS]

You cannot be seriously suggesting that the OP ignores the problem and even allows the gear box to run dry if all the oil leaks out!

I'm being somewhat facetious in response to the suggestion that the solutions proposed by earlier posters might result in an RNLI call-out. IMHO this is an extremely unlikely scenario.

Firstly, the drain plug might not leak at all - end of story.

If it does leak, it will almost certainly be slowly and will take a long time to run dry, probably weeks, during which time the OP could even top it up until he is safely back in port.

Even in extremis, that the gearbox dumps the whole of its oil contents catastrophically, and I can see how this would be possible as the OP cannot remove the drain plug at all, gearboxes will run for a very long time provided that they start from a situation of being well lubricated. Obviously, this is not an idead situation but it is extremely unlikely to be a disaster as my old Vauxhall certainly proved.

Interestingly, the same issue has been addressed by a number of car programmes (including Top Gear) who have run cars at high revs without engine oil which is a vastly more testing scenario than a relatively unstressed gearbox. The results are far beyond what you might expect before the engines seize, probably due to excellent oil technology.

So no, I am certainly not recommending running any mechanical device without lubrication, but would any of the previous forumites suggestions result in an RNLI call-out ...... virtually no chance.

Richard