best racer-cruiser - readers vote?

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rusailing

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Have posted on Yachting monthly forum for views on the x-35.

In the abscence of any views as yet - anyone got any strong views on the best (affordable) racer cruiser available in the 35 to 38 foot bracket? Looking more at the racer end of the spectrum but still needs to accomodate teaching use... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Thanks for the replies! Rob
 
They are all getting old now but the She 36 is a simply lovely boat to sail, which is why asking prices tend to be high and owners hang on to them for years and years. Swan 36 very similar, but even more expensive for age/size.
 
The main disadvantage of the X35 is that they rate circa 1.055 under IRC and I'm not convinced they can compete at that rating.

A second-hand X362 would be an obvious boat to look at.

J109s are also a nice dual purpose cruiser racer, but maybe more suited for racing as a class. They also appear a bit expensive for what you get.

I like the Arcona 370, but perhaps better described as a very fast cruiser rather than a racer (IMHO). At circa 1.040 could certainly challenge the X35s on corrected time though.

I've heard good things about the Elan 340 but not sailed one yet. Just below your size range though.

Boats like the Sigma 38 etc are better offshore but they won't be competitive around the cans these days.
 
"Boats like the Sigma 38 etc are better offshore but they won't be competitive around the cans these days."

<cough> <splutter>
True the Sigma 38 is good offshore, but take a look at the results from inshore racing:

2007 Warsash Spring Series - Sigma 38s 2nd & 4th in IRC 4 (16 entries).
2007 RTI - Sigma 38s 1st, 5th, 7th...in fact 6 out of first 12 places filled by Sigma 38s in IRC 2C (71 entries).
2007 Cowes week - Sigma 38s fill 3 out of top 5 places in IRC 6 (55 entries).
2007 Hamble Winter Series - web site currently down but at least 2 Sigma 38s in top 5 of IRC 3 with 30+ entries.

I don't think you could beat a Sigma 38 for value for money as a cruiser/racer but then I'm biased : )

For £60,000 you will get an immensely well constructed boat in good condition that will handle almost anything offshore. It is still a strict one design with an active class association that organises race training, and is very good at sharing tips and ideas.

We have sailed our S38 across the Atlantic double handed and raced competitively with 9 crew in and around the Solent and the boat has been outstanding.

ckris
 
Despite the rave reviews above for the sigma 38, If you're looking at the "racer" end of the spectrum then look elsewhere. What the poster above fails to mention is that in the classes it's racing in now, the sigma 38 is almost always the largest boat, so hardly quick. Competitive under handicap sure, but not quick by today's standards.
In fact I've been racing in the winter series in the class above, only 2 of which (a swan and one other) are longer than the sigma.

As others have stated the J boats may well fit the bill, but stay clear of the 105 if you're teaching. About the same headroom as the average dog kennel.
The 109 would seem to fit the bill well, and with the added advantage of a really competitive one design fleet as well as being a demon under IRC.

Other boats to consider would include the 40.7 which although out of your size bracket can be good value on the second hand market and makes an acceptable teaching boat.
The Elan 37 is quick when well handled, but would be a handful as a teaching boat. Given the recent arrival of the 340 and the 410, a replacement for the 37 would seem logical as the next step.
The X362 is a great boat, but not easy to sail to its potential, and a little heavy by comparison with the newer models.
The Bavaria match 35 and 38 (though I'm not sure they still make the 38) are fantastic value and there's a 38 we sail against which is a weapon. Their crews say they're hard to get in the groove though.
The Sunfast 37 (as used by a well known solent based company...) is a great teaching boat, but not exactly fast. The few that are campaigned privately are not exactly top of the fleet.....
Dehler has some cracking cruiser racers out now, and the 34RS is a competitive boat.
The Beneteau 34.7 can be a weapon, and is good value. Not everyone likes the head in the forecabin layout though, and it's probably not going to be the best teaching boat.
For a little more cash the like of Kerr and Mills are the people to go talking to for the best IRC racers.
 
I like the look of this every time I see it go flying by....

37ft, 59k


Very successful racing yacht with full recent sail wardrobe, good inventory and practical cruising layout. Ready to compete and in good order.
2001 Winner in Class in Sail East, Ramsgate Week and Round the Island
2002 Winner in Class in Ramsgate Week and Round the Island - winner of Town Cup
2003 Winner in Class in Round the Island - Winner of Town Cup
2004 Winner overall Sail East - Winner Class EAORA
2005 Winner in Class - North Sea Race and East Coast Race
2006 Winner overall EAORA - Winner overall Sail East
 
[ QUOTE ]
I like the look of this every time I see it go flying by....

37ft, 59k


Very successful racing yacht with full recent sail wardrobe, good inventory and practical cruising layout. Ready to compete and in good order.
2001 Winner in Class in Sail East, Ramsgate Week and Round the Island
2002 Winner in Class in Ramsgate Week and Round the Island - winner of Town Cup
2003 Winner in Class in Round the Island - Winner of Town Cup
2004 Winner overall Sail East - Winner Class EAORA
2005 Winner in Class - North Sea Race and East Coast Race
2006 Winner overall EAORA - Winner overall Sail East

[/ QUOTE ]

So..... What type of boat is that then?
 
Hi Flaming

Despite the rave reviews above for the sigma 38, If you're looking at the "racer" end of the spectrum then look elsewhere. What the poster above fails to mention is that in the classes it's racing in now, the sigma 38 is almost always the largest boat, so hardly quick. Competitive under handicap sure, but not quick by today's standards.

Ouch - words can be so hurtful /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

True that lighter more modern boats can be faster for the same waterline length, but doesn't mean a Sigma 38 can't be competitive on handicap - we had great competition in the HWS with a J92, but the flip side is I know which boat I'd rather be on offshore in a Force 9. Following the logic to it's conclusion maybe we should all give up and sail catamarans?

What I really failed to mention is that in most of the events listed Sigma 38s made up more than a quarter of the class and I reckon one design boat on boat racing is hard to beat. In the RTI 3 Sigma 38s finished within 6 seconds!

Agree the J109 is a good option, they have reached a critical mass now and the fleet racing looks good. Same with the 40.7 though this is a step up in terms of crew grunt needed. You will need an extra £50k+ for these so depends what your definition of affordable is /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Of the other boats listed I would love to have a sail in an X362 which looks a lovely boat, though not often you would find another one to race against.

Anyway, I was just responding to the comment that Sigma 38s aren't competitive inshore - am sure all have plus points and downsides, that's what makes it interesting.

Ckris
 
Yep, one of Robbie Stewarts finest (not that he has produced a duff one to my knowledge)

I Say - Ding Dong!

Actually has that knack of looking bigger than it is. I always thought it was a 40.
Probably could be had for a very good sum.
 
Don't get me wrong, Sigmas are great boats but the original poster said he was looking for something at the racer end of the racer cruiser spectrum, which is definitely not the Sigma. I love the boats, and have a lot of racing time on sigmas, but let's call a spade a spade. Don't forget the last Sigma was built in 1989, 19 years ago.

As to the Sigmas making up most of the class.... Well, this is primarily due to the decline of the class as a one design. There was no class start at Cowes, Warsash spring series, or Hamble winter serie this year. The last time I raced a 38 at Cowes, in 2004, we had 12 boats on the line in our own class. You will not see a class start at Cowes for the 38 again. The class cannot command that sort of numbers any more, and when it does a large proportion of the boats are under charter with sailing schools. With the best will in the world most private owners do not want to race against sailing school boats crewed by paying beginners.

And yes, they are affordable, but the original poster is talking about an X35 (which I'm guessing will have to be new given the young age of the class) so I guess for him affordable is a bit more!
 
How about something from across the channel

Archambault or a JPK
There are other French boats besides the usual suspects.

But squaring the money/berths/racing/teaching circle I don't think you can beat a First 40.7
 
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