Best 21-23 foot trailable sailer that dries out upright?

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stibbles

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I am looking for a trailable sailer and being able to dry out well & probably upright on the mud of the Wash and the hard sand of N Norfolk is quite an important feature for me.

I have already had some very helpful comments from several of this parish about specific boats I was looking at (and comments about the undesirability of drying out at all are noted) , but I think I might benefit from any views there might be out there on different models I haven't considered.


So far:

parker 21 - under consideration
parker 235 - too expensive
etap 22i - like the hull, but sounds like it would struggle drying out upright on the sand
anderson 22 - looks robust but perhaps same problem as etap 22i
hunter liberty/minstrel 22/23 - would consider a quirky rig, but have concerns about ruggedness for coastal trips


So, I'm thinking a lifting keel which lifts right into the hull or one that just lifts a bit but with bilge plates.

Not totally opposed to a bilge keeler, but perceive it would be significantly more difficult (higher & heavier) to trail -although wouldn't be planning to do it more than a few times a year.

4 berths (or at least 2 + 2 for nippers) would be preferred.

Any ideas?
 
Some good boats under consideration there.

Can you clear up whether you want a trailable boat or a trail sailer?

A trailable boat you may just launch and recover once or twice a year so the ½ day rigging isn't a worry.

A trail sailer you may keep at home and have to launch/recover every time you use the boat so rigging time is going to significantly cut into a long W/E but not be such an issue for a 2 week cruise.

From what you have said already I would tend towards a bilge keeler for the drying out upright and don't worry too much about it being a little more difficult to get on a trailer, it's only once/twice a year.

What vehicle you have to tow with?
 
I'm not very experienced, but here's what I know.

You talk about drying on hard sand. Most people cringe when you say that.

I certainly wouldn't like the thought of the hull of my lifting keeler settling on hard sand. I'm happy with her settling on mud.

So to my mind that means you are looking for a bilge keeler, not a lifting keel, as that will settle onto it's keels rather than subject the hull so a hard landing.

So now there's the question of which bilge keeler, that will take the hard fround without spreaing the keels etc.

I wouldn't be bothered about the bilge keeler being a bit higher on the trailer for towing, but it will be harder launching and recovering than a lift keeler.
 
A little out of your size reqirements we had a Hunter Delta which is 25ft untill recently, vertical lift keel and sits completly flat on its bottom on hard sand. We had a trailer for it and took it home each winter. Fantastic boat IMHO. Well built, easy to manage single handed and suited the family for cosy holidays of up to two weeks each year, even went across the channel in it.
 
My first non dinghy boat was a Hunter Minstrel 23' and we had some good fun sailing it on the east coast.It is a sturdy boat.We used to dry it out to scrub the antifoul, and it sits nicely on the stub bilge keels with the plate fully up.I had it at Blackwater Marina where it dries out on every tide and there was no problem with the plate sticking.Launching was easy as it sits on a cradle which is winched up onto the main trailer.It draws 1'2" with plate and centreboard up and 3'6" with the plate down.As you probably know the Minstrel is the gunter and rolling jib version of the Libery which has the cat ketch rig.
 
When I read the thread title I just assumed it was Seajet's birthday and somebody wanted to be nice to him and ask the question he has been waiting for since he joined the forum :D
 
If you can find one sounds like an Islander 23 might meet your requirements - the bad news is we've bought the only one I know of to come up for sale in recent times :)

Your basic criteria sound much the same as ours were and after much consideration I elected to go with a twin/bilge keeler rather than a lifting keel accepting that the sailing performance might be somewhat compromised but that there'd be a lot less to worry about mechanically and no intrusion into the cabin space

The downside, inevitably, is that sailing performance is unlikely to be spectacular (although I'm optimistic on that score since other Russell Marine twin keelers such as the Alacrity and Vivacity, with which the Islander shares many hull characteristics albeit being somewhat larger and heavier, are fairly decent performers) and with some bilge keelers can be positively pedestrian - or negatively pedestrian if you like when they can't claw their way to windward over any sort of adverse tide.

You pays your money and you makes your choice 'cos some of those "pedestrian" bilge keelers have accommodation that knocks the socks of anything you'll get on a "performance" boat and if that's what floats your boat :D I for one will not be criticising

Perhaps the best bit of advice I can offer is to go and actually physically look a lots of boats refining and honing your list of critical "must have" requirements (preferably by crossing as many items OFF the list as possible!) and of "desirables" along the way.

I spent hundreds of hours (literally) browsing the interweb, compiling lists of possible boats complete with picture galleries, comparison tables etc. and so on and worked out EXACTLY what we had to have. It was not without value (I learnt a lot) but in the end it was kind've wasted effort.

None of the boats on my list of potentials turned out to be right when we actually encountered them in three dimensions and despite all the research I had failed to come across a single mention of the RM Islander 23 anywhere - as a result I didn't even look that closely at the boats details on Seedhouse's web page. It was only when we decided that the Vivacity 19 we went down to Woodbridge to look at was too small and took a casual turn around the yard that we actually looked at Brigantia properly and realised we'd found almost exactly what we'd wanted all along. An over-reliance on research could have led us to pass up our (nearly) ideal boat!
 
I just assumed it was Seajet's birthday


Beat you to it long ago on the OP's other thread ! :)

Though if Stibbles REALLY wants to settle the boat on hard sand, I'd rather see a lesser boat trashed...
 
aquaplane said:
Some good boats under consideration there.

Can you clear up whether you want a trailable boat or a trail sailer?

A trailable boat you may just launch and recover once or twice a year so the ½ day rigging isn't a worry.

A trail sailer you may keep at home and have to launch/recover every time you use the boat so rigging time is going to significantly cut into a long W/E but not be such an issue for a 2 week cruise.

From what you have said already I would tend towards a bilge keeler for the drying out upright and don't worry too much about it being a little more difficult to get on a trailer, it's only once/twice a year.

What vehicle you have to tow with?
Click to expand...


Definitely a couple or three times a year rather than everyfortnight (I wish I could go sailing that regularly anyway - but I'm still working on it!). But I was hoping more like an hour or so rigging rather than half a day, but perhaps this is naive?

Vehicle-wise, I am basing this on the use of a big Mitsubishi 4x4 (Shogun) - providing it is only now and again.
 
electrosys said:
Before looking at boats - what are you towing with, and where will you be launching from ?
Click to expand...

And launching-wise (most regularly at least) I'd ideally like it to be at the ramp at Gibraltar Point/(Skegness Yacht Club, I think). A great spot IMHO. I've no experience with the ramp, though. Like I've said, not something I'd be planning to do too often.
 
seumask said:
A little out of your size reqirements we had a Hunter Delta which is 25ft untill recently, vertical lift keel and sits completly flat on its bottom on hard sand. We had a trailer for it and took it home each winter. Fantastic boat IMHO. Well built, easy to manage single handed and suited the family for cosy holidays of up to two weeks each year, even went across the channel in it.
Click to expand...

May I ask what you towed her with? That's bigger than I'd been working to
 
Brigantia said:
Perhaps the best bit of advice I can offer is to go and actually physically look a lots of boats refining and honing your list of critical "must have" requirements (preferably by crossing as many items OFF the list as possible!) and of "desirables" along the way.

I spent hundreds of hours (literally) browsing the interweb, compiling lists of possible boats complete with picture galleries, comparison tables etc. and so on and worked out EXACTLY what we had to have. It was not without value (I learnt a lot) but in the end it was kind've wasted effort.

QUOTE]

Sound advice, I'm sure. I've bought a boat before and I must admit I must enjoying perusing - maybe less intimidating than the 1st time. Many thanks
Click to expand...
 
stibbles said:
Definitely a couple or three times a year rather than everyfortnight (I wish I could go sailing that regularly anyway - but I'm still working on it!). But I was hoping more like an hour or so rigging rather than half a day, but perhaps this is naive?

Vehicle-wise, I am basing this on the use of a big Mitsubishi 4x4 (Shogun) - providing it is only now and again.
Click to expand...

If it's any help to you, we bought out 18ft boat, on it's trailer, with little thought to how we were going to use her. Initially we had, just like you, thought of just launching her, having a sail, then putting her back on the trailer.

I'm now glad we have changed our minds.

Having launched and recovered once, that is enough to convince us that is something to to at the beginning and end of the season only.

For us, it's a half hour tow to the slipway, then an hour to put the mast up and rig the boat, and probably half an hour to launch. Then you have to moor the boat up while you then go and park the trailer. So lets add that all up and it's 2 and a half hours from home to sailing, plus a lot of hard work, and that's if nothing goes wrong. At least as much, probably more, to recover and bring her home.

If we had to do that every time, we wouldn't be doing much sailing, certainly not day sailing.

Add to that where we launch the slipway is quite exposed, so trying to launch, and in particular recover in anything but perfect conditions would be even more of a chore. (there is a slipway even closer but even more exposed and absolutely nowhere to tie up the boat while parking the trailer)

If you have a perfect slipway with a pontoon alongside the slip, well sheltered then you might be more inclined to launch and recover more regularly than we are.
 
I'd say to even roughly set up and rig an Anderson for instance is indeed a lot more like half a day than an hour !

Also slipways need all the research you can put in,

Is there a drop off the end

Can the car hold the boat and trailer on the ( quite possibly slippery ) slope

Is there a winch or at least a bollard / strong point to secure the car to

How crowded does it get, can you guarantee to launch at all if you just turn up

Is there somewhere secure to leave trailer and car

A lot of this can be researched with any local harbourmaster, the sooner the better !

There is one other alternative to the drying out on sand problem.

It's an old idea, still used at places like Looe in Cornwall and the Old Harbour at St Helier.

The boat is 'docked' into a floating cradle, which itself is secured by mooring/s; she is made fast , and the whole lot goes up and down, the cradle taking any pounding on the seabed.

These cradles are usually made of very old, large heavy timbers.

Snags;

Well I can see the main one being getting permission from the harbourmaster to use one; unoccupied, they could be regarded as a substantial, low-floating menace, certainly hitting one at night could spoil things.

Also it would take a lot of construction, in situ as the things I've seen are definitely not transportable !

I still would not use even this method if the place is exposed to real weather, but it's about the only 'system' of drying a boat out on sand which isn't overly cruel - I don't think a twin keeler will like it much either, one cringes to think of the loads on splayed keels !

Windsongbowmod.jpg


This boat is in a floating cradle, though you can only just see it.
 
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As mentioned on other threads friends of mine have a Seal 22 , this had a mooring at Stanpits in Christchurch harbour and dried out upright every day with the keel retracted into the stub she draws 18", and still clears the outboard leg in the well and the rudder lifts/pivots as well. The boat has a trailer and is usually moved by other friends for launch and recovery at the end of season with a Landrover. She's up for sale c/w trailer and O/B try 01425 471004 evenings.

ianat182
 
I second the liberty. I was recently very close to going for one, although as you say, the rig is quirky, but I don't think there's any reason to doubt the ruggedness. They've got what may be one of the most sensible set ups for drying out, with their bilge runners.
 
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