Berthing in Dutch marinas bows to - help!

Modulation

Modulation

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We're going over to Holland in a few days time for 2 weeks and we'll probably go inland for a bit. I'm a bit apprehensive about the mooring arrangements as I believe that nearly all the berthing is bows to the pontoon with the stern between 2 piles and the quarters secured to each. We haven't done this before so can anyone advise on technique - especially the sequence of operations if the wind is a bit fresh!
My crew is not strong.

Thanks
 
Sounds like the way they do it here on the Chesapeake. We found it really awkward at first and having watched the locals it looks like most of them have problems with it too - I don't know how the Dutch themselves get on with it though, I'd hope they'd be proficient since I believe they evolved the technique in the first place.

We've been doing this for about the last two months (we're liveaboard at the moment) and have managed it in crosswinds and also cross current (a couple of knots at Tangier Island in Virginia). I can hardly say we are expert and do this with style and grace but the obvious trick is to approach the slip erring on the side with the most influence i.e. keep to windward as you come in or keep up-current if that is predominant. Don't go in too slowly or you'll lose steerage - you need to b*lls it out basically. Get your stern lines and bow lines ready well ahead of time. I prefer to get the bow close enough in for Wifey (usually) to get a line ashore or round a pile but leave it slack. Helm then has to ooch up to one quarter and get a line around the windward/up-current piling as quickly as possible. Many use a boathook to try and drop a loop over the piling, but I've found this to be frustrating. Likewise the Lassoo technique, which is fun in calm conditions but a bit stressful when the wind is up and everyone's watching. I usually end up just getting close enough to wrap the line right round the piling and then tie it off as a slip back on the stern cleat. Once you've got bow and stern tied to windward-currentward you can then take your time shuffling around with the rest of your lines. You should always put a spring or two in depending on where the wind or current is coming from.

I've also found we usually need to arrange the boat diagonally in the slip, with the bow offset to one side for elegant crew egress. This usually means the opposite stern quarter needs to be pulled over towards the nearest piling. A neat trick to do this shown to us by one of the watermen on Tangier Island is to rig a spring line on that opposite quarter to your midship cleat and tighten both this spring line and the stern line to that piling as tight as you can - this holds the boat rock solid with the opposite bow near the dock where you want it and has worked everytime we've tried it.

One thing about doing this in the Chesapeake is that the pilings are often very tall (the tops are often out of arms reach) to cope with hurricane storm surges and this makes getting the ropes around or over them more difficult. In Holland this may not be a problem.

I'd also say that it is far easier for us to do this bows-to than to do it stern first. Nearly all sailing boats over here go bows-to and nearly all the power boats go stern to. Might be different if we had a bow thruster but as all right-thinking sailors know that's cheating...

I don't know if that helps you at all, it's a bit difficult to explain this in a post. I'm sure there are other people who can tell you better techniques but don't worry about it, just have a go. I'm sure the locals will give you plenty of help when you get there, just as they do here.

Good luck

Neil
 
Yes, its pretty common but not universal. Can go in forwards or reverse in - decide whic is easiest to get off boat - bows if you have a step tho'/low pulpit; stern if not.
Rig 2 lines that will go over posts ( big bowline or loop ) and attach to approiate end of boat and ready to pull in; take these to other end of boat and pass over posts as you soon as you can then take the lines in as you serenely go into berth; as you approach bank somone steps off to do those lines. Easier to do than decribe. Many such berths have have ropes beween the posts and bank which help
Couple of tips - dont lie about your beam - its often a tight fit anyway (might need fenders up as you go thro' posts)
If you have a cross wind concentrate on the wndward post only.
Which bit are you going to - over there myself @ similar time?
 
We've done it in Holland, germany and the Baltic. If you are prepared it's no problem. We get stern lines prepared with a large bowline in each, and some sort of bow warp ready cleated on. Lead the stern lines forward, so that as you come in between the piles you can slip the windward one on (either over the whole pile or the hook on it, as seems appropriate and reachable at the time). If you have time to do the lee one at the same time, that's good. Then we usually move forward by pushing on the piles or neighbouring boats (which you'll need to fend off, anyway). When you are close enough in, you can secure the bow warp. Having a normal British pulpit, this involves a bit of gymnastics - the natives usually have some way of stepping through the pulpit! Then you can pull yourself back and forward on the warps to get everything properly sorted out. It has involved me in a dinghy on occasions! We cross the stern lines, and put on two bow lines, but you'll have leisure to work out what others do and why.

As the other poster said, the approach is crucial, but you will be in areas dominated by wind, not tide, so there's usually an opportunity to turn away and have another go if it all goes wrong. Watch the natives in a strong breeze - they get it wrong too, and we found everyone very helpful at taking lines, fending off and offering advice in English.

Don't worry about it - enjoy the trip!
 
this is what we do

Hi Brendan,

Being Dutch I have always been used to this type of mooring. Though, with Heerenleed being 48 ft I don't particularly like it. But here you are, there is no way around it once in the Netherlands.

This is how we do it between the two of us. If you have more people aboard it's simpler, but use the same principles.

As Neil already pointed out, when the wind is across the mooring (= parallel to the pontoon) it's the most difficult. Approach the pontoon with enough speed not to be blown to the leeward side of the mooring (this is, btw, what we call a Box mooring).

Have your stern line ready, and stand a crew member approx. midships on the windward side of the boat. Aim to pass the windward pile as closely as possible. While passing it, your crew member can now put the stern line over the pile and pass it to you if you're on the helm. KEEP IT SLACK but out of the water in order not to get it in your prop. Meanwhile, your crewmember steps to the bows and steps off onto the pontoon, line in hand. Now you can adjust your lines. If you wish to have a line on the leeward pile as well, have your crew member slacken the bow mooring line, pull the boat backwards to the piles, then try to throw a line over the leeward pile. As you aren't going anywhere, this is simple now.

We use this method also when mooring in locks. I am mostly at the wheel, my partner stands amidships with the stern mooring line in a large loop. I steer close to the wall of the lock, without touching it, but close enough to enable my partner to leasurely put the stern line over the bollard. Now I take the line, keep it out of the water but SLACK and point the bows to the next bollard. My partner has walked to the bows and now can lay the bow line over the bollard. I stop the boat in the meantime, the stern has swung far out, but I can pnow pull in the stern line. Works a treat. The mistake many people make in locks is attatching the bow mooring line first. Dont. If you have a current on the stern, which is often the case, or a lot of wind, your stern will swing out with no means to get it back to the wall. If you have a bollars or strong cleat to fix a mooring line midships, you can also just have a crewmember put this over a bollard, keep it very short, no more than 1-2 ft, and slowly put your engine ahead, steering your stern towards the wall. The boat will align nicely alongside the wall, giving you plenty of time to attach mooring lines at the bow and the stern. This is also a good trick if mooring alongside a pontoon or quay of course, if you have enough room.

I must explain that Heerenleed has a centre cockpit, so there is not much I can do when at the wheel but steer very precisely. Always remember that your stern needs to be completely free in order to manoeuvre, so you need a very long stern line. in order to give enough slack to move freely.

In locks, try to determine which bollards you must use, as close as possible to the boat in fron of you. If you don't, you risk being told to move forward and doing it all over again.

good Luck!

Questions? Do ask!
cheers
 
Re: this is what we do

As above, the key thing is to get the windward pile line on and then the bow, and have lots of fenders. Once attatched, you can adjust things at your leisure. A good, long, strong boathook is very handy- get one with a spike and hook on the end- the nancy ones sold these days with a sort of ball on the end slip on rough surfaces like piles and locks. The spike and hook allows you to hold the end of a long bowline against the tension of the standing part in your hand and extend your reach to a plie or bollard. I bought one of those rings you attatch to the rigging to store it up along the backstay. I have a very unhandy long-keeler which has the turning circle of a bus and won't steer astern at all- lots of fenders is the key!
 
Re: this is what we do

Just find a box upwind of a boat of similar siz put out fenders
coming in put stern rope round windward pile and gently go alongside boat allready moored then you have time to sort yourselves out. It is not difficult or anything to worry about!
 
Thank you all for your very helpful replies. I'm printing them all to take with me as they certainly have raised my confidence level.
 
Hi
Probably entering at the Oosterschelde sea lock and meandering around the going to Veersemeer then into the canal to Middleburg and leaving at Vlissingen. Maybe a bit up the Westerschelde.
 
Go in Stern-to. That way you only need two people in the cockpit to slip ropes over the posts as you come in and one of you can go forward and hold off on one side. The helmsman can then reverse up to the pontoon in complete control and use a bit of forward thrust to stop and hold off while securing a stern line. Once the stern line is on just use the engine to hold you in place while making fast the fore deck lines. The other advantage of this approach is that you can easily step ashore from the cockpit and you get the chance to chat to other sailors as they pass by while you're sipping your G&T and watching the sun go down. Enjoy the trip. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Sorry to disagree, Cellbuoy. Ever tried this in a wine-glass shaped long keeler? If there is any cross wind your bows will be blown away at once as you have no speed. You can only try this in an easy to manoevre boat with a short and deep keel. I do agree, though, on the G&T side.

cheers
 
Re: this is what we do

Well I delivered Tadorna to Middelburg a week ago and put her in one of these boxes - my first time. Took a couple of attempts as we had no convenient boat in the downwind berth to snuggle up to and the bows got blown off. You need to keep up steerage way but, at 7 tonnes, she takes a lot of stopping. It was fine in the end.

The young lad from the yacht club (harbour-master) was happy to wait on the pontoon and take our bow line. This was a big help. I get the impression that it will be pretty easy to get such assistance. For our trip through the canals I expect that I will be able to rely on my 12-year-old daughter to effect the necessary gymnastics if help is not available - we have a bowsprit and pullpit with significant overhang - although I cannot help feeling that a 'splosh' will be heard at least once. In Middelburg at least, there was no bollard or cleat on the pontoon that one could lasso with the bow line.

But for me the real problem is that an aged guest we will have with us will not be able to get on and off by the bow. Together with the fact that we are a long-keeler with no practical ability to steer astern, and therefore find it hard to contemplate going in stern-to, I have a dilemma. In Middelburg there is also some alongside berthing available – how often will if find that?

Alan.
 
Re: this is what we do

The aged guest could be a real problem. Can you take some adaptable steps that can be adjusted to help him/her scramble onto the pontoon?

You could try reversing in by using warps and muscle power. Stop parallel to the pontoon alongside the piles of the box next door and further on from the one you want to go into. Get a loop over the nearer pile of your box and a longer one onto the pile on the far side, which you then walk forward. Then get all hands, pulling and fending off and a few bursts in astern and rudder hard over. You'd have to exploit wind and prop-walk, and think it out carefully in advance. The advantage is that if it all goes horribly wrong you'll be able to motor out forwards. Give yourself plenty of time, and have plenty of fenders ready.

Oh, and there are alongside berths in some marinas, or rafts of other boats, which may be just as impossible for your aged guest.

Good luck - I'm sure you'll be ok when you get there.
 
I've just bought an ex Baltic based boat. They have the same sort of moorings there too. Out boat came with a thick (2" diameter) warp that drapes over the topsides, for about 2/3 of the length.

This warp acts like a fender so you can snuggle up to the post without bashing your topsides whilst you try and lasoo the wretched post. It is impossible to keep regular fenders in place.
 
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