Beneteau 34 Draft Size

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SarahJ

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Looking for first UK boat and like the Beneteau 34. What would be differences between drafts of 1.5m (so not shoal draft) and 1.8m in performance? Not intending racing but like nice performance. Going to be Solent marina (ouch!) and then hopefully Southern Portugal/Spain is main goal later so not sure of shallower draft advantage. Thanks.
 
Not a huge difference performance wise. The big advantage of shallow draft comes if you have twin keels or lifting keel and can dry out. Otherwise you can go in water just a foot or so shallower - how important is that likely to be?
 
Thanks for that reply cmedsailor, confirmed what I was thinking. I was just trying to widen the possiblities for purchase as not that many Bene 34s around. As you say, a little difference but, like many, I see another yacht nearby and it's a race! Grew up racing on the Clyde and hard to get out of that mindset....Food for thought anyway.
 
SarahJ said:
Thanks for that reply cmedsailor, confirmed what I was thinking. I was just trying to widen the possiblities for purchase as not that many Bene 34s around. As you say, a little difference but, like many, I see another yacht nearby and it's a race! Grew up racing on the Clyde and hard to get out of that mindset....Food for thought anyway.
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I have an HR with a 1.5 keel vs the standard 1.8 and have sailed in company and races with both. I have not noticed a difference in pointing ability, though this might come to light in more extreme weather. Equally, I can carry sail to the same extent as far as I can tell. In some conditions the shallower fin is slightly faster, possibly due to the smaller wetted surface, but the shallow fin is more subject to rolling, and on one occasion I found that I was losing speed cf the deeper keel on a broad reach from this cause. On the other hand, a shallow fin is handier when on the hard. Both versions of my model are good in their own way, and I would think the Benny would be the same. Some older boats from the '70s & '80s definitely lost performance in shallow versions.
 
I have an opposite experience to what Johnalison has described. During a club race I was competing against a Beneteau Oceanis 361 with the 1,53 draft version (and classic main sail). My Beneteau Oceanis 361 has the deep keel 1,80m version and in mast furling main. The difference in pointing ability was amazing. The other boat had a lot of leeway. Conditions were moderate.
 
cmedsailor said:
The 1.8m draft will allow you to point (go upwind) better and let you carry full sail before reefing for 1-2 extra knots of wind.
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I doubt it's that simple. What's the reason for s shallower draft version? Did Beneteau reduce the rig size and/or configuration for the shallower draft hull.? All other things being equal I would expect a good designer to produce boats that sail well in most conditions. If you're cruising I doubt the difference, if any, will be easily discernible. Cut, age, and shape of sails will make a bigger difference, I'd say.
 
This is my 1.4 metre draft Bav

Keel by Twenty Seventeen, on Flickr

Following one of those races you mention :) we overhauled a deep draft Bav 34 who was trying as hard as I was. 10 year old OE sails.
 
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If the Beneteau is anything like my HR and the Bav, the shallow option will have a larger bulb on the keel, so the ballasting will be fairly similar in each model, and sail-carrying ability with it. From my observation, older shallow-fin boats tended to carry much more leeway, comparable to the twin-keel versions, but with my current boat and those of friends, several with shallow fins, any effect is far less than that caused by different sails. If I sailed from the South Coast I might well have chosen a deep fin, but both options have their uses.
 
Lots of reasons why the same model of boat will point/ sail better. Condition of the sails, ability of the person trimming the sails, how much fouling on the hull, is the other skipper really trying to beat you or just out enjoying himself, is the other boat lightly loaded or in cruising trim i.e. full of gear etc etc.
All these things affect the final performance and unless you try all aspects it will be difficult to quantify differences.
I have a lift keel Ben 323 down in Algarve and am completely happy with it. Not as quick upwind as a standard keel but know the difference downwind is marginally better with the keel lifted. I also sometimes sail upwind with the keel up in moderate conditions and whilst there's a loss of performance, I'm happy with it and it saves going down to drop the keel. I'm only out to potter and enjoy myself and not racing.
The ability to get into places when you draw only 0.8 mt is also extremely useful to me on this coast. Gets you into Alvor, Rompido early, over the bar at Vila Real entrance at virtually any time, and into anchorages where deeper boats can't go and off the beaten track a bit. The ability to dry out is an added bonus to allow hull maintenance etc.
At the end of the day you choose what is important to you and go that way. Marginal differences in performance are not important in my opinion.
 
Little Grebe said:
I had a similar sized Beneteau, the difference in stability between the shallow and deep draft versions was enough to change to CE class from 'B' to 'A'
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I've just used Google to search for the original brochure and you are absolutely correct. The deep keel version is rated A6 and the shallow draft is B7. The spec doesn't show the displacement for the shallow draft, only for the deep keel.

I read this thread earlier this morning and out of interest tried searching for comparative stability curves and wind/speed polar diagrams. I wonder why aren't these public domain?

Very, very subjectively; I had a 361 shallow keel and now have a 41 deep keel. Different LWL and hull forms, the 41 readily stiffens up and bites straight through the water whereas the 361 used to wallow quite a bit. More importantly, my wife was quite often sea sick on the 361 but hasn't been plagued by mal de mare in the 4 seasons we've had the 41.
 
davidjackson said:
Very, very subjectively; I had a 361 shallow keel and now have a 41 deep keel. Different LWL and hull forms, the 41 readily stiffens up and bites straight through the water whereas the 361 used to wallow quite a bit. More importantly, my wife was quite often sea sick on the 361 but hasn't been plagued by mal de mare in the 4 seasons we've had the 41.
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But I think that this (if you are referring to slaming?) has to do with the flat section in front of the keel, not the draft.
 
Little Grebe said:
I had a similar sized Beneteau, the difference in stability between the shallow and deep draft versions was enough to change to CE class from 'B' to 'A'
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That's interesting. I have a shallow draft Bav 33 (1.5m against 2.09m) and the AVS STIX and Category (A) are the same.

The shallow draft keel is 200kg heavier so the ballast ratio is higher.

Don't have any comparison about sailing ability, but have to say i am delighted with its upwind performance even with in mast furling. Much better than my old 37 with the same type of keel as that on Bav 34's boat.
 
Thanks for all the replies, most helpful. Still a bit confused but seeing a Bene 34 later this week and am going to try to get some answers on draft and ballast ratio. Guess it comes down to personal choice; the problem is making that choice! At least I have realised not to take brokers descriptions as verbatim as some draft listings as quite obviously completely wrong. The research continues...........
 
Tranona said:
That's interesting. I have a shallow draft Bav 33 (1.5m against 2.09m) and the AVS STIX and Category (A) are the same.

The shallow draft keel is 200kg heavier so the ballast ratio is higher.

Don't have any comparison about sailing ability, but have to say i am delighted with its upwind performance even with in mast furling. Much better than my old 37 with the same type of keel as that on Bav 34's boat.
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Couldn't find a copy of the orginal brouchure but the designer's summary doesn't list a different ballast weight for the shallow draft version http://www.finot.com/bateaux/batproduction/beneteau/first31_7/f31_7_ang.htm
 
davidjackson said:
I've just used Google to search for the original brochure and you are absolutely correct. The deep keel version is rated A6 and the shallow draft is B7. The spec doesn't show the displacement for the shallow draft, only for the deep keel.
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Little Grebe said:
Couldn't find a copy of the orginal brouchure but the designer's summary doesn't list a different ballast weight for the shallow draft version
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Here's the brochure:-

https://storage.passionperformance.ca/specs/1/2/9/12977-B_oceanis34.pdf
 
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