Before I have another go at the Belgains - what colour is Irish diesel?

[Burnham Bob]

Is the green Irish diesel from Northern Ireland or the Republic? If it's the Republic, I'll ask the Belgian Embassy of they fine Irish yachts as well.

Watch this space as there needs to be some action soon about this ridiculous red diesel and automatic fine in Belgium nonsense.

 

[Koeketiene]

Is the green Irish diesel from Northern Ireland or the Republic? If it's the Republic, I'll ask the Belgian Embassy of they fine Irish yachts as well.

Watch this space as there needs to be some action soon about this ridiculous red diesel and automatic fine in Belgium nonsense.

In Belgium (and everywhere else in Western Europe that I know of) duty free diesel is RED - not GREEN.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why they have an issue with RED diesel.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Seems to me we could solve our problem by dyeing our diesel green and then we can tell the Belgians we got it in Ireland.

 

[webcraft]

.
The tax-free diesel in Eire is green - or at least it was last time I bought some in 2007. The boat I was on in August topped up in Howth this year but I didn't see the colour.

- W

 

[al.carpenter]

Seems to me we could solve our problem by dyeing our diesel green and then we can tell the Belgians we got it in Ireland.

please do not dye diesel green.... Green is aviation fuel Avgas 100's color...
Avgas 100LL's color (low lead) is Blue. Jet A1 is red... you are asking for trouble.... why not a rainbow colored fuel? cheers. Al

 

[Koeketiene]

.
The tax-free diesel in Eire is green - or at least it was last time I bought some in 2007. The boat I was on in August topped up in Howth this year but I didn't see the colour.

- W

Even so, I guess that's pretty academic for the Belgians.
Not many Irish yachts around in that part of the world.
Been sailing in these parts for over 10 years, and I've yet to encounter an Irish flagged yacht.

IIRC: the letter OP received from the embassy said the problem they had was dyed diesel.
That should include green as well.
If the embassy now replies that they would prosecute yachts for having green diesel - does that solve the problem?

 

[dt4134]

Irish diesel (that is diesel sold in the Republic of Ireland) is dyed green. It apparently has the same chemical marker as the rest of Europe but is a different colour. I believe it is a long-standing arrangement.

The way I understand it is supposed to work is that Irish boat owners fill up with Green diesel at the same rate as agricultural/fishing users then account for duty in their annual income tax return.

Northern Irish diesel is dyed red.

 

[samwise]

I very much hope that 2012 will see an end to all the confusion, claim, counterclaim and inaccurate and at times alarmingly wrong, interpretation of the regulations re dyed diesel.

In the broadest terms( as I understand it and based on responses from MEPs and others in recent forum threads on this subject) We ( the UK that is) agreed to an EU proposal to regularise taxation levels on fuels, including fuel for leisure boaters.

Our government was able to negotiate a dispensation to allow us to continue to use red diesel for a period of time during which we were supposed to adapt our fuel delivery systems (marina fuel berths etc) to handle white diesel. This dispensation expired some time in 2008, during which time little was done to change the system, possibly in the belief that the UK could negotiate a special deal.

So, technically the use of red diesel has been outside the regulations since that time and all the twisting and turning by the RYA and HMRC etc since then does not alter the fact that we are out of step and in breach of our agreement.

As is the way with most things to do with the EU, things grind slowly and other member countries have not been exactly swift to bring their fuel tax regs into line so there was what I see as an unofficial further extension to the red diesel dispensation that many UK boaters took to believe was a permanent feature provided that we continued to harass Brussels in order to sustain it.

I think most, if not all of the other members are now in line, typically we are not and the result is that "those across the water" are now stepping up their prosecution of the regulations.

Unless the Tory Right win the day and pull the UK out of the EC, I fear that there is no sensible alternative but to conform with a regulation we signed up for all those years ago. Or we can continue a fruitless fight and expose leisure boaters to fears of boardings and fines every time they leave UK waters.

I don't believe it's giving in. We have had a good run and fought hard for our case and although it may be a bitter pill for the Eurosceptics to take, it is time to deliver on our agreement and put an end to all this confusion and uncertainty that risk taking a lot of the pleasure out of our sport.

 

[KAL]

If our government choose to permit us a tax break on our fuel, that is certainly not harming anyone else on the continent. The EU should have no right to impose one fiscal rule for everyone. We are our own country, we have our own government which we ELECT to legislate by consent. Sorry, no-one elected the EU commissioners.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

please do not dye diesel green.... Green is aviation fuel Avgas 100's color...
Avgas 100LL's color (low lead) is Blue. Jet A1 is red... you are asking for trouble.... why not a rainbow colored fuel? cheers. Al[/

don't see this as a problem. Planes do not stop at harbours to refuel and boats do not go to airfields.

Besides which, the Irish seem to cope. How hard can it be?

 

[al.carpenter]

please do not dye diesel green.... Green is aviation fuel Avgas 100's color...
Avgas 100LL's color (low lead) is Blue. Jet A1 is red... you are asking for trouble.... why not a rainbow colored fuel? cheers. Al[/

don't see this as a problem. Planes do not stop at harbours to refuel and boats do not go to airfields.

Besides which, the Irish seem to cope. How hard can it be?

Sorry but you are wrong here... I am saving up to buy myself a FIB 582 next spring...

http://www.allboatsavenue.com/bateau-volant-polaris-la-croisiere-offshore-en-hydro-ulm

mind you, not planning to go to Belgium with it so...

Tractors and Central heating furnaces do not refuel at marinas stations either...

 

[MoodySabre]

it is time to deliver on our agreement and put an end to all this confusion and uncertainty that risk taking a lot of the pleasure out of our sport.

100%

 

[samwise]

If our government choose to permit us a tax break on our fuel, that is certainly not harming anyone else on the continent. The EU should have no right to impose one fiscal rule for everyone. We are our own country, we have our own government which we ELECT to legislate by consent. Sorry, no-one elected the EU commissioners.

Did you read the post? I don't think you quite understand how the EU works. Our government (Tory at the time) signed up to membership of the EU "club" and its rules ( although we have from time to time tried to change them!) . More recently, as I said, the UK government of the time(elected by us) agreed to conform to the proposals re fuel.
The answer is that if we don't intend to follow the rules, we should leave the club. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Tranona]

Did you read the post? I don't think you quite understand how the EU works. Our government (Tory at the time) signed up to membership of the EU "club" and its rules ( although we have from time to time tried to change them!) . More recently, as I said, the UK government of the time(elected by us) agreed to conform to the proposals re fuel.
The answer is that if we don't intend to follow the rules, we should leave the club. You can't have it both ways.

If only it were as simple as that!

The reality is that the EU Commission agreed with HMRC proposal to continue the supply of Red diesel to leisure boaters provided the appropriate duty was paid on the proportion of the fuel that was used for propulsion. The Belgian authorities (I hesitate to say "government" as they don't currently have an elected one) have decided that it is not the harmonisation of duty part of the directive that is important, but the more narrow issue of marking. It is difficult to see what their objection is as there is nothing to be gained or lost for Belgians in any way - no loss of duty revenue for them, and if Belgian citizens rush over to UK to buy our diesel, they will pay duty!

However, as has been covered in great detail in the press, the EU is backtracking on its agreement, whereas the UK Government is sticking to its guns because it believes it complies with the Directive.

As for complying with the rules - this is a constant battle, and if you are nerdy enough to follow such matters closely you will find endless disputes between states and the EU where there is a clash between the individual state interests and EU Directives. This "spat" is a "sprat" compared with most other disputes.

Having said all that, I agree on balance it is perhaps better to fall in line - there are much more important issue to fight over, but for politicians there can be rewards for making a stand over "popular" issues - even if they lose in the long run.

 

[Rowana]

Did you read the post? I don't think you quite understand how the EU works. Our government (Tory at the time) signed up to membership of the EU "club" and its rules ( although we have from time to time tried to change them!) . More recently, as I said, the UK government of the time(elected by us) agreed to conform to the proposals re fuel.
The answer is that if we don't intend to follow the rules, we should leave the club. You can't have it both ways.

We should heve never joined in the first place! Ted Heath should have been strung up by the goolies.

This is yet another example of why we should get out ASAP. And while we're about it, get rid of The Lord High Bampot and his cronies from Edinburgh!

The only growth industry in the UK for the last 30 years is politics! Speak about jobs for the boys. most of them are as much use as a chocolate teapot, but cost us all an arm and a leg. No time for any of the useless feckers !

/rant

 

[reginaldon]

We should heve never joined in the first place! Ted Heath should have been strung up by the goolies.

This is yet another example of why we should get out ASAP. And while we're about it, get rid of The Lord High Bampot and his cronies from Edinburgh!

The only growth industry in the UK for the last 30 years is politics! Speak about jobs for the boys. most of them are as much use as a chocolate teapot, but cost us all an arm and a leg. No time for any of the useless feckers !

/rant

Good sense from North of the Border.

 

[Appledore]

We should heve never joined in the first place! Ted Heath should have been strung up by the goolies.

This is yet another example of why we should get out ASAP. And while we're about it, get rid of The Lord High Bampot and his cronies from Edinburgh!

The only growth industry in the UK for the last 30 years is politics! Speak about jobs for the boys. most of them are as much use as a chocolate teapot, but cost us all an arm and a leg. No time for any of the useless feckers !

/rant

The whole of the EU is a shambles, and has already been stated, the only real beneficiaries are the Politicians!! As from today, some battery cages have been banned due to their sizing. The UK has complied with the EU Directive ("Do it or else!!"), but some States (I call them that because that's what they are all in - a state!!), including France, have openly stated they will NOT comply! So what will the EU politicians do now? I guess absolutely NOTHING!! And, although French eggs may perhaps be banned from the UK, egg products will continue to be imported. Not really helpful to our own egg producers is it?

So, no mater what anyone says, there seems to be a rule for 'them' and another for the UK. The quicker Cameron gives us our vote, which he promised pre-election, the quicker we may solve our own problems. If the majority of the UK population then vote in favour of staying in this political stranglehold, then so be it, and I would agree that our tax-paid red diesel should go, but only if all 27 States follow the same bl***y hymn sheet!

I have to support Rowana as I own a Rowan!!

 

[Koeketiene]

Unless the Tory Right win the day and pull the UK out of the EC

There have been reports of a US flagged yacht being fined for having red diesel in Germany.
Even if Britain leaves the EU, the problem remains.

 

[Appledore]

There have been reports of a US flagged yacht being fined for having red diesel in Germany.
Even if Britain leaves the EU, the problem remains.

Perhaps that is because they may have refuelled in the UK prior to entering German waters. I can't see that any EU directive binding the EU Countries would apply to foreign nationals.

Anyone from the US available to tell us what colo(u)r their marine diesel is? And I guess it's half the price 'over there'.

 

[Robin]

Perhaps that is because they may have refuelled in the UK prior to entering German waters. I can't see that any EU directive binding the EU Countries would apply to foreign nationals.

Anyone from the US available to tell us what colo(u)r their marine diesel is? And I guess it's half the price 'over there'.

Current price where our boat is in Florida is about 60p per litre ($4 per US gallon). It is RED except for road use as far as I know and State Sales Tax is added at around 6%