Be careful with those laser flares

[Searush]

US Navy wasn't.


But just how effective is their "Death Ray" really? The target seemed to be anchored, only one of the engines was damaged & it took some time to take effect.

Would you just sit there & let it happen, or would you have a mirror on a stick to send it back at the aggressor?

 

[Talulah]

Have to say "Not Impressed."
Try doing that with an outboard painted silver and moving.

 

[Searush]

Have to say "Not Impressed."
Try doing that with an outboard painted silver and moving.

Quite, mirror reflective 3m's tape anyone?

It did seem to have some sort of target stabilisation so that as the engine bobbed around, the spot stayed in the same place, but I wondered how effective it would be if the target was zooming around, dipping into wave troughs, out of sight etc.

The comment about it being "at the speed of light, faster than any missile" just made me guffaw. I'd like to see it work over the horizon like a cruise missile does. In fact, my guess would be that it has a range of not more than 100mtrs, possibly much less.

 

[prv]

Quite, mirror reflective 3m's tape anyone?

I assumed the reason they were aiming at the engine was that it was black, hence nice and absorbent of laser energy. Also plastic and flammable - easiest target on the boat for them.

my guess would be that it has a range of not more than 100mtrs, possibly much less.

Do they say what the intended purpose is? Split-second speed at short range seems useful for something like the "Goalkeeper" close-in defence system - shooting missiles out of the sky - but not a lot of good when it takes 30 seconds to actually ignite anything.

Pete

 

[Twister_Ken]

I bet they all laughed when someone said. "Look guys, I've just invented this thing I call a musket. Here's a demonstration. I'm about to make a nasty dent in that piece of wood six feet away".

 

[Seajet]

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/abl.htm

In case you haven't seen this..the official version is that the thing worked, but was cancelled due to cost.

The main use of lasers as weapons to date has been as 'PIL's, Pilot Incapacitation Lasers, which fill an aircraft cockpit with dazzling light; these are banned by the Geneva Convention, but like the Airborne Laser Program I don't think many people will turn down a weapon if they think it's handy...

Night vision systems can be temporarily blinded by bright lights like lasers or flares, so one should indeed be careful about when to use a laser flare, or in the wrong situation it might result in an irritated response from the people one was asking for help !

 

[maxi77]

Lasers are widely used in the military for various things. Pilot dazzle is legal as long as the laser itself does not cause permanent eye damage. As for using mirrors etc against this one that will only work if your mirror material is not damaged by the laser. A high energy laser can burn through some reflective materials, a reality that causes quite a few engineering problems in laser manufacture.

 

[Searush]

I bet they all laughed when someone said. "Look guys, I've just invented this thing I call a musket. Here's a demonstration. I'm about to make a nasty dent in that piece of wood six feet away".

I think it was the Chinese with mortars that threw huge chunks of stone that started the road towards muskets, several hundred years ago. They got to muskets by making them portable, but they always did more than putting a dent in bits of wood 6 feet away.

These Hi Power lasers have had MILLIONS of dollars & thousands of man-years spent in developing them as part of Star-wars - and that is as good as they have got. No wonder Uncle Sam has lost patience with them, only an idiot (like, say GW Bush) would think they were a sensible weapon.

 

[Seajet]

Pilot dazzle is legal

Maxi 77,I realise you probably mean wartime use, but in case anyone is not, have a look at www.pprune.org 'rumours and news', -laser attacks on aircraft.

I seem to remember a system involved in the Falklands being removed afterwards, and have worked with target designators for real; my instructor was blind in one eye, no prizes for guessing how.

An excellent aid, but Searush, it was the appropriately named Ronald Raygun who started the Star Wars programme, the Russians had laser weapons on spacecraft decades ago so I'll leave you to guess what the U.S. have got.

Meanwhile lasers are great for us mortals just measuring something or attracting attention, but please do not point one at an aircraft, or anything military, the results could be serious, including for the one pointing !

 

[DownWest]

Radar came out of a request to the boffins to produce a 'death ray' for aircraft. They quickly realised the huge power needed, but spotted the detection possibilities.

Military friend comfirmed my idea that my Auto welding mask is a dribble down from nuclear flash goggles used by the forces.

 

[maxi77]

Pilot dazzle is legal

Maxi 77,I realise you probably mean wartime use, but in case anyone is not, have a look at www.pprune.org 'rumours and news', -laser attacks on aircraft.

I seem to remember a system involved in the Falklands being removed afterwards, and have worked with target designators for real; my instructor was blind in one eye, no prizes for guessing how.

An excellent aid, but Searush, it was the appropriately named Ronald Raygun who started the Star Wars programme, the Russians had laser weapons on spacecraft decades ago so I'll leave you to guess what the U.S. have got.

Meanwhile lasers are great for us mortals just measuring something or attracting attention, but please do not point one at an aircraft, or anything military, the results could be serious, including for the one pointing !

I certainly agree about the difference between a military dazzle laser and the numpties with pointers. I once had to disuade a senior MOD representative from remonstrating with a froggy youth in Paris who had one of those very dangerous cheepo pointers. We once tested some and over 50% were illegal with far to high an output energy.

If your instructor had taken out one of his eyes I hope he was done for self inflicted injury. There should be no way any UK user of a military laser can damage his eyes.

One of the other key uses of lasers is of course for navigation with the ring laser gyro, though they are now being superceded by FOGs though they still use lasers.

 

[Seajet]

Welding visor

DownWest,

when I first used a laser designator I was issued with goggles which had sensors, so that they were supposed to make a noise and go black to protect one's vision, if taking a laser hit.

I was somewhat dubious as to how they worked faster than the speed of light.

Then I got the next generation, which looked like everyday sunglasses...

In the words of Ian Le Mesuerir in Dad's Army, " Are you really sure this is wise ? " !

Editted to add,

Maxi77 the chap with one eye was not from the UK; and good luck if you think UK lasers are not dangerous.

 

[maxi77]

Maxi77 the chap with one eye was not from the UK; and good luck if you think UK lasers are not dangerous.

Having spent the last few years of my working life dealing with laser safety and the last 25 years working for a laser manufacturer I am well aware of just how dangerous lasers can be and how you need to use procedures to make their use safe both in training and real operations.

As for the safety goggles most use the fact that lasers are a very narrow frequency and you can use relatively narrow band filters in the goggles. these give relatively good vision and excellent protection. The 'instant' ones use the fact that some materials react to light in a non linear way, they allow low levels to pass through but stop high energy levels getting through.

ps I would be very carefull with those hand held laser flare things, they all fail to tell you any real info on their output and rating

 

[Seajet]

Maxi77,

thanks for the details, which will hopefully be of use to readers.

As a technical photographer I know how filters work, but having been involved with military equipment development, still have a slightly suspicious view of some kit ( as for the laser goggles, you go first, sure they're fine really ) but that's not to say I am anti-military, far from it.

I think we've covered enough info' for a sailing thread, which could be maybe summarised as,

be careful where you point bright lights, especially if hoping to be rescued; lifeboats may be blinded, and helicopters will not be at all happy, in some parts of the world taking that as a hostile act !

I can't help thinking the old trick of shining a light on the sails - if up - for close range work - has a lot to be said for it.

 

[maxi77]

I can't help thinking the old trick of shining a light on the sails - if up - for close range work - has a lot to be said for it.[/QUOTE

It does work very well if there is any one looking, I remember that being tried on my first cross channel trip, ne reasction so we shined the Aldis on their bridge, no one there so we gybed and went round there stern.

As an aside whe I was on a ship doing the Beira patrol, any merchant ship that was tardy in replying to a request for it's details at night was treated to a 20 inch searchlight from one cable, I suspect it took their OOW morer than a few minute to get his night vision back after that.