Bayliner 285 anchor / windlass help NEWBIE Alert

[x3noc]

Ok,
Deep breath.......

I have a 2005 285 that i imported new from the USA and it is now in a marina in Spain. It is sitting there without an anchor as everytime i ask in a store for advice i get conflicting information.

It has a sprint 600 windlass with a RC0761 gipsy (i think thats what its called) This is a 7mm fitting and Europe seems to use either 6mm or 8mm.
The boat is used in the med mainly sandy bottom composition

Q1
Do i need to replace the gipsy with a standard euro syle 6mm or 8mm?

Q2
I read that a 14kg / 31lb danforth will be fine. Is this correct?

Q3
Do i use all chain or a combination? If combination do i need chain at 5 times the length of the boat and if so will 50m of chain plus rope fit in the chain locker?

Q3 in the chain locker there is only the one spiggot that i can connect the rope / chain to. Its on the top next to the windlass bolts is this correct.

Anything else anyone can think of is much appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Jason

 

[MedDreamer]

Hello and welcome.


Up until last Autumn I had a 2855 (same as 285) in Majorca. Where abouts in Spain are you.

I cant' help you with the windlass issues but I'm sure someone can.

With regard to the anchor, it depends really what you are anchoring into. Is the seabed in your area mainly sand, weed, mud or rocks.

I originally had an 11kg CQR which worked well on Windermere (muddy bottom) but after I ahmm lost this in Majorca I replaced with with a 10kg delta (plough) type and that worked brilliantly - in sand. It really was as simple as just getting over a sandy area and dropping it. I never had to reset it.

The only time we had a problem was when we tried anchoring in a weedy area, the afternoon breeze got a little strong and we started drifting, moved over to a sandy bit, dropped anchor and bingo, set first time.

On our Bayliner we had 9m chain and the rest was rope and again this seemed to work well (usually scope was about 5x) On a smaller boat like the 285 I think the rope helps dampen the "snatch" effect. We certainly never experienced it anyway.

The other beauty of rope of course is that if you ever need to get away quickly or the anchor gets stuck you can just cut it with a knife

Just re-read your post, yes that is the only connection in the anchor locker, and even if you do use all chain then it should be attached to the boat with a short length of rope (say 1-2 feet)

 

[duncan]

welcome from me too..........

anchor wise you are going to want to self stow this in your stemhead fitting - suspect this will lead you down the route of a bruce or delta - possibly a rock-c, or Rocna. Latter 3 will do better where there is weed or 'sea grass'.

guessing that you will be dayboating, maybe overnighting on the hook in good weather - sheltered conditions, a 10kg of the above should be fine and easy to manage.

all chain will be easier to handle on the windlass - ie operate from helm without having to scramble over foredeck.

on a boat like yours an all 6mm chain rode shouldn't put too much weight in the bow, be capable of handling (ie you could haul up 60' plus anchor by hand if really necessary so could anchor in 60' if you see my logic)

you will need 3 times the greatest depth you expect to anchor in - in practice I suspect that 30m should be fine.

get someone local to supply you with 30m of chain to fit your gypsy and leave them the problem of sizing! if you can remove the gypsy easily - (if it's the same quick as mine you simply unscrew the clutch (the star nut thing on the top) completely and it comes off the shaft - you could take it in to the chandlers rather then them having to go the boat.

as said already attach via a piece of rope to the boat (to be able to release in emergency.

if you do go all chain then make up a simple snubber from a suitable chain hook to 3m off 10mm nylon and use the stretch in that to take any jarring out of the system when at anchor in shallow water.

have fun!

 

[hlb]

Think this all hinges on whether you can change the wheel thingy in the gypsey, never heard of seven mil chain, but maybe. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Length of boat not important. It's how deap you want to anchor. Maybe thirty metres about right.

All chain much easier.

 

[Solitaire]

Hi, I would have thought that it would be cheaper to buy the chain in the US and have it sent out to you. With that in mind I "did a Googole" and came up with this site - and look what it came up with!. Exactly your windless and it states 1/4 inch chain. Then I thought I'd look up under anchor chain and low and behold - I found this site.

Now given the cost of a new Euro windless I go and buy it in!!

As others have said I'd go for a Bruce as it will fit your bow.

Anyway - good luck.

 

[x3noc]

Thanks for all the help folks, i have emailed a few dealers about replacing just the gipsy. See what they come back with. Further to this would you have a spare emergency anchor on board too? In fact what kind of emergency kit do you recommend for a dayboater / occasional overnighter?

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Welcome to the forum Jason. I agree that finding the right chain will be the easiest and cheapest route.

My opinion on the Bruce anchor is in line with the other guys as well. It sets easily in sand, it can be broken out easily and stows the best. I know this shouldn't count for much but it looks cool especially in stainless steel. But don't buy an original from Bruce, buy a copy from China or wherever /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[RogerRat]

Always interesting, but most of us have tried various combinations. Thanks to Solitaire you know that you have a 1/4" inch chain gypsy which will take 6mm chain.

This is good because it's lighter to carry but some would argue that it's bad, because heavier chain is stronger and holds the anchor in place more firmly. Taking into account that the Bayliner is a fairly light boat and Med. tides almost non existent, you should be able to anchor confidently, provided your length of catenary / scope is ok.

I would guess in this situation, 20 metres of chain, twice your boat length is pretty good for 20ft of water.

If you need to anchor in deeper water then add rope of a type that sinks but at a greater ratio of 5:1 of depth. The biggest drag or pull for you will be windage, I think. If you connect the chain to 3-ply rope of 12mm diameter, this will hold in the chain gypsy like a jamming cleat and will run through happily changing over from to chain to rope on auto. To splice it on, you need to learn the 'chain splice', very similar to a 'long splice', the whole idea being that you're going to create an eye splice without increasing the diameter of the rope. It can also be done with octoplat but is not as easy. Don't forget, 12mm rope is stronger than 6mm chain! but a chain splice reduces the strength of the rope. Also with this simple method of increasing depth of anchoring, you won't have to carry miles of heavy chain.

I'm guessing you already have a Danforth / spade anchor as standard equipment, these are very easy to stow in tha lolocker and hold well in sand, but I would agree with the majority here, that a copy Bruce is inexpensive and holds really well in most situations, although not quite as easy to launch as a Delta type, but still launches ok. Good luck.

 

[craigsmith]

x3noc:

[ QUOTE ]
Q1
Do i need to replace the gipsy with a standard euro syle 6mm or 8mm?

[/ QUOTE ]
Solitaire seems to have answered this. But, there is a regular on here, GMac, that is the guy to talk to. Chain and rope expert. He might turn up, or you could send him a PM drawing his attention to this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
Q2
I read that a 14kg / 31lb danforth will be fine. Is this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you looking for a cheap anchor that is just adequate, or the best you can get? If the former, then the answer is maybe, if the latter, then the answer is definitely no.

[ QUOTE ]
Q3
Do i use all chain or a combination? If combination do i need chain at 5 times the length of the boat and if so will 50m of chain plus rope fit in the chain locker?

[/ QUOTE ]
The more chain, the better. Therefore, all chain if practical for you. A general rule of thumb for the bare minimum amount of chain is 1 x boat-length, so anything in between is fine. If you are using all-chain, you should have a nylon snubber set-up for use as a shock absorber.

Other questions answered by others, except

[ QUOTE ]
Further to this would you have a spare emergency anchor on board too?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a bad idea. This is where the answer to your 2nd question might be "yes".

More about The Great Anchor Debate:

- From 10 different people, you will get 10 different recommendations for anchor types. Very few people have extensive experience with all the types available so this is usually unhelpful.
- You tend to get what you pay for. Stay away from the really cheap junk, Asian knock-offs, etc.
- Identify the various types available to you. Then do your own research, and decide which set of pros and cons most effectively benefit you.
- This is quite important and worth investing some time in. An anchor is just a lump of steel, but it is also a safety and security device that can frequently be critical to the safety of your boat and crew.
- This article may be a good starting point (although it is biased toward the Rocna).

 

[x3noc]

have i missed something here?
"Thanks to Solitaire you know that you have a 1/4" inch chain gypsy which will take 6mm chain."

If i follow the links i get info in 1/4 inch chain. No mention of the windlass taking 6mm chain too.
I am checking with dealers in the US but it looks as thought the cost of shipping the chain (weight) maybe ridiculous.

I'll keep you posted

Jason

 

[AdeOlly]

Hi - as has been mentioned already, if you go all chain do put in a short length of rope that you can cut should the anchor get stuck. I speak from personal experience of getting my anchor stuck with an all chain setup; it's downright dangerous trying to hacksaw chain when the boat's leaping around in a chop and snatching against the anchor. Fortunately in my case the 'one last go at freeing it' after realising the hacksaw route was dangerous, did so /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[duncan]

6mm should work fine in the 1/4" gypsy

ask the local guy for a couple of meters to try out first

I would reitterate the comment I made about med / sea grass / bruce anchors. If you anchor regularily in areas of sea grass I would definitely favour the rock-c or rockna or delta over the bruce. In clear sand they will all do the job for you in the conditions you will be anchored in.

 

[hlb]

I'd really check on this one. The chain must be calabrated and if it's not exactly right, it will bounce and bang about, maybe two steps forwards and one back.

Take no notice of the length of boat x chain crap. You need enough to reach the bottom, obviously, then x 3 or more. Most folk anchor in 10 metres or less. If in, med and no tide, you may well anchor mostly in two or three metres.

Dont matter whether you got a rowing boat or QE2. If it dont reach the bottom, your f**ked.. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[duncan]

absolutely agree - hence the suggestion to hand the problem side of this to local chandler - but expect it not to be a problem!

my understanding of med is you either anchor in up to 20ft, or you can forget it ie it's over 600!

 

[GMac]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok,
Deep breath.......

I have a 2005 285 that i imported new from the USA and it is now in a marina in Spain. It is sitting there without an anchor as everytime i ask in a store for advice i get conflicting information.

It has a sprint 600 windlass with a RC0761 gipsy (i think thats what its called) This is a 7mm fitting and Europe seems to use either 6mm or 8mm.
The boat is used in the med mainly sandy bottom composition

Q1
Do i need to replace the gipsy with a standard euro syle 6mm or 8mm?

[/ QUOTE ]

7mm DIN766/A is a common size and made in Europe. A big outfit called Maggi Group in Italy makes tonnes of the stuff and there are others. You could use a US 1/4" if you like and have a big pile of money you want to get rid of. 8 or 6mm will give you grief on this gypsy, it is designed for 7mm or 1/4". The sizing is very important and 1mm will make a differance.

[ QUOTE ]
Q2
I read that a 14kg / 31lb danforth will be fine. Is this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

It will be OK, just, in softer bottoms but struggle in harder stuff. It will also take a lot of space on your bow. You will probably better off on something else. Based on price try a Claw/Bruce/CQR type one. Based on performance go for a new generation, like ROCNA or Spade. If a Danforth fits most others should as well.

[ QUOTE ]
Q3
Do i use all chain or a combination? If combination do i need chain at 5 times the length of the boat and if so will 50m of chain plus rope fit in the chain locker?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a fan of combination myself (lighter and cheaper) which will work on this winch. The problem you will have is Bayliners have pathetic anchor lockers so a Rope/Chain combo may struggle. If you go the combo way I'd use 15 to 20mts of 7mm chain to 12mm GOOD QUALITY rope. NOTE 8 braid or Anchorplait won't work well, if at all, on a S/L winch. The rope length can't be too long due to locker issues so maybe you run a 30-35mts of chain to 30 odd of rope. This way your on all chain most of the time and have the rope for the extra deep places. More rope the merrier though, if you can fit it in. Again, buying a cheap rope will give you problems sooner rather than later.

Ruff guide:
Using a chain/rope combo work on water depth plus waterline to winch times 5 for average conditions and more when the wether goes bad.
Using all chain 3 times, again more in bad wether.
General rule is 'more is better than less'.

[ QUOTE ]
Q3 in the chain locker there is only the one spiggot that i can connect the rope / chain to. Its on the top next to the windlass bolts is this correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming your talking about stopping the whole thing dissapearing over the side. Easy way to stop this is just make a bloody big knot in the end of the rope i.e. bigger than the hole it goes through. If you run all chain put a big shackle on the end to do the same thing. Obviously tying it into your locker is better if you have the option. DO NOT repeat DO NOT tie it around any part of your winch. It will be all bad especially if the rode takes off on you.

 

[mollydog]

anchor chain

Hi Jason,

I have got the same problem as you with regards to the Simpson Lawrence Sprint 600. Having made many enquiries, the Gypsy number RC0761 which is a quarter inch chain is equivelent to 7mm. To buy it in the UK would cost postage, nearly as much as the chain (we live in Sardinia, Italy) I have ordered a 7mm from Italy but I have had to order 50 metres. Obviously 25 metres is sufficient so when I receive, if you want either the address of the company or my other 25 metres, I am sure we can come to some arrangement.

Regards

Tony

 

[EugeneR]

The options list for a 2005 Bayliner 285 does not show a different model windlass for boats imported to Europe.

As such, I expect that European boats have the same model and that your local Bayliner dealer may be able to advise you and/or supply you with some chain.

Hope this helps!

 

[hwdgraaf]

I'm having some issues with my sprinter 600 windlass (Simpson Lawrence) and need to check it. How to unscrew the unit from the deck? Seems I need to remove a part of interior inside. As I'm having this boat just a few weeks I would appreciate if anyone could assist on this.

Kind Regards, Henk