Bavarias

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crazycanucks

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A while ago Bavaria got a poor reputation due to a keel incident. Has this truly affected what people think of them or was this an unfortunate one off? My wife and I are considering adding the boat brand to our list of potential Med liveaboard possibilities.
 
I would seriously consider the bav as a med liveaboard, just accept you get what you pay for, the keel incident was probably the result of a previous grounding, as well as borderline build quality. you get a reasonable boat for the dosh, but dont expect a world girdler. The boats are generally designed to be used as a floating home with ocaasional sailing in reasonable conditions.
ANY fin keel modern yacht can suffer horrendous damage if grounded. Yes, IMHO, consider it as a possibility for med liveaboard.
 
Not sure what size you are considering but Bavaria have an incredible deal on the new 38ft model!

We looked at Bavaria's last year and found them reasonable - I would certainly consider them again when I replace the current tub!
- you will actually benefit from the poor reputation becasue it has kept the prices down!!
 
If your planning to stay med only they may be a good choice as they provide plenty of cockpit space and are value for money but i wouldn,t personally own one as they seem to be built a bit light and lack individuality!
 
Are you thinking new or s/h?
pre 1992 Bavarias are very different boats from the later ones, they can be recognised by off white gel coat and model numbers giving beam in cm's like 390, 370.

These are well built comfortable cruising boats.
 
Bavarias have proven to be a very good option for the Med cruising that you describe. They have even made it across the Atlantic and in the latest ARC rescued a non-ARC catamaran-how on earth did they do it??

You may gather I am a Bavaria supporter. I have a 2002 model 44 which we lived aboard for 5 summers (5-6mths) and covered 11500nm from France to Turkey and back.

Ours is a 3 cabin version with the deeper 1.95 keel and fully battened main. Ex charter boats are often 4 cabin and don't have the full batten main but keep looking. The fwd cabin is great and there is a spacious locker between the anchor locker and the fwd cabin in which I bury my spare anchor, 8 fenders and my cruising shute.

The Bavaria loss of keel was tragic but the slander against the name has been almost as bad. The keel was lost from their "Match" series, performance models with a lighter build as can be seen from their specs, and the reason is still unclear yet almost everybody on this forum makes posts which imply it is a daily problem on all models including their cruising range.

Take a good look at the specs. They are not built lightly in comparison to other similar production boats. But neither are they a long keel Panzer tank. Captainslarty is correct in my opinion, all fin keel boats are subject to damage with a serious grounding - but in my experience not necessarily terminal, I have spent many an afternoon wandering amongst the boats on the hard in Greek and Turkish marinas.

As a Med cruiser and more, they are worth a look. Unfortunately the later models have given up some of the features I liked when I purchased but the general equipment is still first rate.
Ray
 
Bavaria was always the best choice for PRICE PERFORMANCE ! I have it since 2001. and must say that I should come back I will choose Bavaria once again. That is not mean that Bavaria is the best boat, but for money you pay for some another well known boat, you can make from Bavaria paradise! For people who like to work on boat and have enough money to invest every year in some new "project" on your boat it is definitely best choice!

I am not in any comm. relation with Bav.!
 
If you're still thinking about an ex charter boat, you'll probably find that Bav represent a large chunk of the market, the rest taken up by Béneteau and Jeanneau. We bought a Bav 37 (on charter management) this year, and are well pleased - enough interior comfort for the oldies that we are, and it sails very well to windward. If we'd had more cash available, we'd probably have gone for a Benny Oceanis, but the Jenny Sun Odyssey was never an option. If we'd had unlimited funds, my dream boat would have been a Najad...... still dreaming.
Take a look at the Kiriacoulis website for ex-charter boats for sale - no, I'm not on commission from them, but we bought with them because they seemed to attract "a more skilled skipper" than some other outfits, anonymous cos don't want libel action, and their boats are well maintained.
 
Yes I have one as well, they are certainly NOT lightly built, mine wieghs in at 16 tons dry. Kevlar reinforcing in bow area, Seldon spars, Elvstrom sails, Raymarine instuments, Volvo engine, all good quality gear. On top of that they slip along at remarkably good speed.
The price you pay is the result of extremely efficient production techniques and low staff costs, OK they are not an HR and you have no choice of customising but a very seaworthy craft. All Bavarias are catagory A which can not be said for all other mass production boats. My Bavaria's glass is half FULL. Ignore the keel business, the boat in question was racing and had previously struck a reef.
Criticisms ? Naturally there are some, joinery obviously mass produced on a machine, some of the internal chrome fittings are plastic, no wet locker, narrow boom traveller.
Yer pays yer money etc etc.
Bavaria 49 Sir Hugh.

Happy 2008 Everybody /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Like OliveOyl, I bought my Bavaria 37 from Kiriacoulis in 2001. It has now finished 7 seasons chartering and is in better condition than similar boats in the UK. I agree with all the other comments about build quality. They are well put together, easy to maintain as everything is accessible, particularly the engine, electrics and plumbing and this encourages good maintenance. The 1999-2003 models like mine have "better" interiors, but not everybody likes the dark sapele wood. However, it lasts well. All my varnish except the table and toilet door is original. The upholstery of this vintage is plain and does not fit well, although actually lasts quite well. We are having our saloon upholstered in Corfu for 1100 Euros, less than it would cost in pounds in the UK. The other weak bits are the interior lights which break up with constant use and the cooker, which is (I think) a Techimpex. The burners and grid need replacing frequently, but if mine is anything to go by, the oven rarely gets used - charterers head for the nearest taverna! However, the fridge holds lots of beer and all have hot and cold pressure water.

I also have experience of the 2000 Bav 42 which we nearly bought, but it is just a bit too big for 2 people, but the model with the extra double cabin forward would make an excellent liveaboard for a family with children. All the models of thet era had basically the same internal fittings; just as size increases so does the number of loos and cabins. The deck gear is all good quality and again the same on all sizes - just bigger as you go up.

You will find charter boats are well equipped with in mast reefing, autopilots, electric windlasses (make sure it is a Lofrans) and all the safety gear (liferaft, EPIRB, DSC radio) and may well have extras such as wind instruments and plotters.. Most, like mine are privately owned and the contract requires that the boat is delivered at the end of the 6 years with sails one year old and all the kit in serviceable condition. Most owners, like me will go out and check the boat over before ownership is transferred.

By observation, the smaller boats, say up to 38 ft are usually chartered by families, whereas the larger boats tend to be used by large groups (8-10 people on a 44) whose main objective seems to be to see if they can drink the breweries dry! However, most of life is lived outdoors so interiors only get used for sleeping!

As I think I suggested in response to your previous post, there is the VAT issue to deal with. Some owners pay the VAT and transfer ownership, then sell. Others try to find a buyer beforehand and the buyer pays the VAT. If you are a non-EU resident you can operate the boat in the EU for a limited period without paying VAT but you still have the issue when you sell. Expert advice needed here.

There are quite a few Bavarias 2001/2 coming off the fleets in Greece. See www.yachtfractions.co.uk for a selection - these will be privately owned, not company boats. Kiriacoulis and Cosmos also sell their company owned boats.

Hope this helps - recommend the Greek experience as a starter! PM me if you want any more information.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Raymarine instuments, Volvo engine, all good quality gear.

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Sorry - couldn't help it - sorry /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Hello fellow Calgarians....

The recent market for Used Bavarias in the 38-42 foot range has gone soft in the past year or so, probably as the result of the very competitive pricing of the new boats and a general downturn of the used market...

As a consequence there are some great deals to be had for used boats, Boats built prior to 2001 or so were all manufactured under Germanischer Lloyds supervision, and are noticably more soldily built (IMO). Boats from the 1999-2001 era I think make excellent value, usually still in good nick with modernish gear, and can be had for seriously good money.....

Decent looking 38 at good money.....

There are a bewildering array of models around this size and age as they seemed to be changing the models every 2 years or so at this time......

1998 Bav 38 Holiday, 1999 Bav 38 (above) 2001 Bav 37, 2003 Bav 38 ...... al different boats.

We sail a smaller sister the the 38, (A 1999 31') which has proven to be very reliable. I have sailed the 1999 38, and would not hesitate to buy one if that was the sort of thing I was looking for.... The later boats which I have sailed from Bavaria all felt less substantial.

Have fun...

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Watch it Guapa, these could be the classics of the future. Isn't it passed your bed time.


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Might see you on the water soon
 
Not sure I would go THAT far.. thats a tad misleading, HOW do you define "Performance" ????

The BAV is a cheap boat, built to a budget... it is neither good nor bad at anything.. as most boats are.. it is a caravan on water, nothing more.. not the ideal sailing boat, or the ideal caravan... for a liveaboard in the med with occasional sailing, as said above, its a good choice... just dont go overboard in its praises ! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

As for a 49 footer, well fine, now, if you talk re the BAV Ocean range, different animal, or, as quite rightly pointed out, the early 3 figure models, yes, a serious boat for all round use...

Price V peromance means zilch !.. quantify please ?
 
http://brunohamm.googlepages.com/troubleswithbavaria38-notes
if this is to long here I created a tinyurl leading to above URL: http://tinyurl.com/yvypx3
a guy who bought a brand new 38 and has endless desaster since. You might have a look at his homepage before you buy a new Bavaria, seems the lost keels are not unique. I am not from the competition as I like Catamarans for lifeaboard ;-)
Henry
P.S. I met him last week ad he showed me his Bavaria, I was impressed, but not positive. According to our law I must express no warranty about the truth and content of the reffered URL
 
If you're considering buying used, another good option for you maybe the Jenneau 40 Sunfizz. A bit old now but makes a great liveaboard and one at least has an impressive world girdling record. Chartered a Sun Fizz some years ago; found it to be well built, with a good payload, fast and easily sailed short handed.
 
If I was looking for a Med Liveaboard boat I would be looking for a really well ventilated aft cabin with a good centre line double bed accessible from both sides. A moody 36 CC?
 
I would also say add Bavarias to your list (we also have one). Gypsy's comments IMO are bang on.

Also agree with Captain Slarty that if you can stretch to an Ocean that would be good. You would get a well ventilated aft cabin and good space for liveaboard.

The Oceans came in different lengths at different times. Started with a 38 then 42 and these were replaced by a 40 and 44 (but with alongside galleys in the saloon I think) and also a 47 and a 51. The Bavaria 49 is aft cockpit.

I have owned Beneteaus and Bavarias and chartered several Jeanneaus. I'm not a surveyor but my impression is that there is very little to differentiate between them in terms of build quality and strength. In terms of directional stability in a blow the Bavarias have been the best.

Bavaria is nowadays the least expensive of the three but has also invested most in volume production to capture the charter market.

We came across a then new Bav 38 in La Coruna in 2006 which had been lifted for inspection after a serious grounding. The aft edge of the keel had bent under compression after the boat bounced several times on a reef. The surveyor and the insurance co representative could find no structural damage to the hull and were unanimous in saying 'thank god it was a Bavaria'. I asked why and they said it was because in their experience the hulls near the keel stood up best of the production boats when grounded.

As pointed out by another poster the Bavaria which lost it's keel was a 'Match' and a different type of boat altogether.

However, I also agree with the poster who said that you won't get individuality with a Bavaria, esp around Greece ) although with the centre cockpits you might a little).

In terms of fittings I especially like the Selden rigs and Harken deck gear (now changed to Lewmar) but they are just my personal prefs.

By the way, I am NOT saying Bavarias are the best boat in the world, but I recommend you add them to your list.

Cheers,

Bob
 
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