Bavaria 34.

Micky

Micky

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One of my mates just purchased a Bavaria 34. Now he has been told that the keels are a weak spot and can be troublesome, even fall off? Another person reckons that the Bavaria is the equivalent of the Skoda, cheap, nasty and mass produced.
Surely they can't be that bad.
 
Norman_E
It's not a Troll, it's genuine. The boat was recently purchased from your neck of the woods, Essex. The comment was made by a sales Broker from another area and my mate was shown another Bavaria out of the water with very large cracks all around the keel.
My mate is now gutted by the comments that are playing on his mind, imagining all types of things could go wrong.
 
If they were that bad they would have gone out of business years ago /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tell yer mate that sailing schools use 'em and they are popular with flotilla operators too. If they were that bad these guys could not afford the insurance claims when all thier punters drown /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I have always though of them as a nice boat, well built and nicely finished, only been a 30 & 34 though.
 
Apart from some well publicised problems with their 'Match' series semi-racing boats, Bavarias are structurally sound. Like any modern AWB fin-keeler (Jen/Ben/Bav/Duf/Gib etc) a hard grounding at speed can do a LOT of damage - I've seen someone else's £30K repair bill for the keel of a 36-footer hitting a rock. They are not designed to be run aground, or for that matter dried out against walls like older yachts.

Bavarias are extensively used by charter companies and sailing schools, because they get a lot of boat for their money, and stand up to the usage tolerably well.
 
Well, a friend of mine sold his Bav 34 just after his first summer cruise, having discovered the bulkheads were moving as soon as the sea got a little choppy (and the doors couldn't be shut then).
And I experienced a slight friction last year, on a windy day, between the stanchions of my SO35, and those of my neighbour's Bav 35 Match... mine were undamaged, while one Bav Stanchion did not bend, but was left heeling with cracks and a hole in the deck...
No more comment
 
Tell your friend not to worry unduly, Any modern yacht with a bolted on keel is likely to suffer cracking in the hull if it is grounded hard. This type of yacht is not designed to bear its own full weight on its keel, either on the hard, or by drying out, and no yacht is designed to have its keel rammed in to rocks.
Provided his yacht had an out of the water survey, which should have spotted any damage, he will be OK. There are a large number of Bavaria yachts from 30 feet up to 50 feet, and very few have had keel problems. There was one very well publicised case of a Match series boat (a different design) losing its keel. Recently there have been two tragedies involving yachts of different makes that have lost keels, but such events are still rare.
Bavaria yachts are definitely built to a price, and offer a big boat for the money. They are fairly light for their size, which helps performance rather than ultimate strength, but if your friend intends to use his boat for coastal cruising and like most of us tries to avoid sailing in the worst conditions he has a quite suitable boat. If however he wants to make long ocean passages, then he has not made the best choice.
 
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Bavaria is the equivalent of the Skoda

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean built in the same way as premium brands (Volkswagen and Audi) sharing many identical components and mechanical parts, put through the same stringent quality control processes and built in an ultra modern plant but sold to the consumer at a more realistic price while doing the same thing as well and a brands that cost 50% more?

Yes, I would say Bavaria are exactly like Skoda - in every sense.
 
[ QUOTE ]
This type of yacht is not designed to bear its own full weight on its keel, either on the hard, or by drying out,

[/ QUOTE ]

Do tell, how exactly is a Bavaria is to be stored on the hard if not with its full weight on the keel?
 
When will people stop talking crap about boats? My Bavaria 34 has stood on its keel for 6 winter storage periods, each about 6 months. No sign of any trouble and I've never heard of any other B34 having keel problems. The keel bolts are stainless steel, as heavy as any I've seen on any boat, and they are easily accessible for inspection. I've never heard of any keel to hull leaks. In 6 years my boat has taken me safely, comfortably and enjoyably into almost every port between La Rochelle and Stockholm.
 
The same way as my Jeanneau. It was put in place supported by a cradle on wheels. Props were put under the hull, at that point the keel was suspended from the boat just as it was when in the water. The wheeled cradle was lowered and pulled clear. Finally a big wood block was pushed beneath the keel and some wedges driven in. At no time from lift out to final placement was any more than a small fraction of the total weight taken by the keel. A yacht cradle would achieve the same result, the hull and not the keel bears most of the weight. This photo shows the end result.
[image]
TurkeySeptOct2006051.jpg
[/image]
 
Are you certain that your boat is "stood on its keel"? Whether it is in a yacht cradle or propped like mine, enoughof the weight should be taken by the hull to prevent distortion. The point is that in the water the hull is supported evenly, and the keel weight is suspended from it. With a long keeled boat it is quite OK in most cases for most of the weight to be on the keel when on the hard. The props are to stop it falling over and take little weight. With a fin keel however another factor comes in to play. The long overhangs fore and aft of the keel present a risk of hull distortion if not adequately supported. The men who propped my boat carefully tapped the hull to locate the positions of the internal stiffening grid, and placed the props accordingly.
 
As you relate it, this kind of comment does the broker fraternity no service whatsoever. It also illuminates how gullible some owners can be that a major manufacturer should be thought to design and produce a boat that is not fit for purpose.

All production boats are made to stand alone on the deck.
And they can withstand groundings and other abuse.

No boat can withstand being thrown onto a hard place - the forces are too great, and damage will ensue.

Most boats deform when ashore - their weight is no longer supported as it is when in water. Doors do not close, rigging stresses change etc. This is normal - a boat flexes, and, for instance, setting up engine alignment etc has to take this into account - that's why this is normally performed in the water.

In the case of Bavaria ( I have one) I have seen for myself in their works in Giebelstadt in Germany the extent to which they go in design and production terms to achieve a boat fit for purpose at a good price. It is true they have lightened their specifications in equipment and internal fittings over the last 10 years or so, to remain competitive with the French, but the mechanicals of their designs are not to a lower specification.

There is a strong demand these days for lighter vessels with serious internal space but fewer of the fittings needed for long distance work, that will respond in most airs on short haul. To say these are not fit for ocean work is to deliberately miss the point. The number of boats that circumnaviate in their whole lives is miniscule, so why build for that specification?

The market has grown up but not all observers have followed suit.

PWG
 
The lost keels were, as someone else said, from the Match 38 - an entirely different design. To be frank, if I ran my boat up on the rocks at speed, I would expect some sort of structural problem to follow.

The Bavarias are the favorite of the charter companies, and charter crews are pretty abusive to their boats. On this basis, I bet more Bavarias have been grounded than any other make, and yet, despite this, I've never heard of a cruising bavaria losing its keel.
 
[ QUOTE ]
This type of yacht is not designed to bear its own full weight on its keel, either on the hard, or by drying out, and no yacht is designed to have its keel rammed in to rocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think owners of Scanmars (and possibly other Scandinavian designs) will disagree with your comment about not being designed to be rammed into rocks. There is a specific test for Scanmars.

From the Scanmar Owners website ...

"The Scanmar 35s were awarded the "Blue Sign" by the Swedish Maritime Authority, which is loosely analogous to the Lloyd's of London specs, and indicates a high degree of construction quality. Each boat is individually tested and must survive a hard grounding at hull speed without suffering any structural damage. "

Donald
 
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