Bav 38 Iron or Lead keel

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West Coast

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Query regarding the Bav 38 (2003 vintage) - keel options were (I think) conventional shallower iron keel or deeper lead keel - not sure of actual depth of each type. Presumably the lead keel will give better sailing performance, a stiffer boat?
 
Do not but the shallow keel version. I had a BAV36 with shallow iron keel, it fell over when the wind blew.

The boat was in fact well out together and the lead keel version actually sailed very well but the shallow iron keel was so bad I did consider having a lead keel fitted as a replacement. If you want to see some real world comparisons of performance go to the RTIR web site and look at the elapsed times. To get the data go

http://www.roundtheisland.org.uk/we...r2&style=std&override=&section=home&page=home

then click results in the right had panel
then click a year
then click more detailed results
then click full results table in Excel.

You can now sort by elapsed time. and compare various years to see a set of results under different wind conditions.
 
The reason I ask is that I was involved in a discussion with a potential buyer of a friend's Bav 38 - he had highlighted as a selling point that the deep lead keel is a benefit over the standard iron keel option - however this was refuted by the buyer who wrote:

Your description of the Lead keel just doesn’t stack up either, “The deep keel has also been a very excellent extra making the boat nice and stiff and heavier seas”. The lead keel has absolutely and totally nothing to do with stiffening the boat, it is an optional extra usually purchased by sailors who also want to club race as a part of their sailing and it is impossible for any leisure sailor to notice the difference between that and the standard Cast iron deep fin keel going to windward and even an Olympic sailor couldn’t tell the difference off the wind…. Sorry.

I just wondered if I was missing something, is he was right?
 
West Coast said:
The reason I ask is that I was involved in a discussion with a potential buyer of a friend's Bav 38 - he had highlighted as a selling point that the deep lead keel is a benefit over the standard iron keel option - however this was refuted by the buyer who wrote:

Your description of the Lead keel just doesn’t stack up either, “The deep keel has also been a very excellent extra making the boat nice and stiff and heavier seas”. The lead keel has absolutely and totally nothing to do with stiffening the boat, it is an optional extra usually purchased by sailors who also want to club race as a part of their sailing and it is impossible for any leisure sailor to notice the difference between that and the standard Cast iron deep fin keel going to windward and even an Olympic sailor couldn’t tell the difference off the wind…. Sorry.

I just wondered if I was missing something, is he was right?
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He just doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
I was told by a charter company that had several Bav 38 on their books that the one with the lead keel sailed far better to windward. I'd be surprised if she didn't.

I disagree with the buyer comments you quoted. A good keel with more ballast improves performance to windward and allows you to carry more sail. Aboat with a heavier keel will generally give a far more comfortable ride too.

You can carry more sail off the wind too. Ok, there may be a resistance penalty if the lead keel is bulkier, but you can make up for that with sail area.

I'm a great believer in ballast and my cruising boat has a lot of lead on the bottom of her keel. More than many boats I've raced on. The benefit is more comfortable cruising (oh and sometimes a bit of speed too).
 
Bav Keels

I used to run a couple of Bavs and can confirm that the deep keel option they used to do made a massive difference. The shallow standard iron keel sacrificed huge sailing performance.

I can assure you that our beginner students noticed the difference.
 
The difference in sailing performance is nothing to do with whether the keel is lead or iron. It is to do with the foil shape. The stability curves are the same as is the ballast weight, or so I was told by Bavaria when I decided on the (really shallow) keel on my 37. The shape, however is totally different from the deep keel whether it be lead or iron. Unfortunately the published data only shows the standard keel weight so I have to take the comparisons on trust.

The deeper keel will inevitably sail better to windward than the shallow keel as it is a more efficient foil. Which you choose depends on your priorities. I chose the shallow keel because I want to go through the Canal du Midi. I do not think in ordinary cruising use one can tell the difference, but clearly if one's objective is to extract maximum performance the difference will become appparent. But then maybe those looking for performance might look at a different design of boat!
 
Lead is far easier to maintain - no rust to cope with after 1/2 seasons. Thats why I got on my 37 and was very satisfied.
 
Self evidently, lead is denser than iron (11.35 gms/cc vs 7.87 gms/cc) Therefore, for the same weight of keel in the two metals, the lead keel will be smaller, and present less wetted surface area, thus less resistance, thus more speed. In this case, the lead keel also seems to be deeper, so will be operating in denser water, and thus creating more resistance to leeway. Sailing faster, pointing higher, a win win.
 
Thanks to all - confirmed what I thought but good to get confirmation. Apparently was not a cheap option at the time but the boat is quick - I have no comparison to a standard iron keel so good to get the comparison info from others. It also has a 55hp engine, but that is another story!........
 
West Coast said:
Thanks to all - confirmed what I thought but good to get confirmation. Apparently was not a cheap option at the time but the boat is quick - I have no comparison to a standard iron keel so good to get the comparison info from others. It also has a 55hp engine, but that is another story!........
Click to expand...

Wow! sounds like original buyer ticked all the boxes - perhaps to show that you can buy an expensive Bavaria!
 
55hp is too much, however he considered (correctly in my opinion) that the standard 29hp was too small. 35hp - 40hp would be more sensible but 55hp was all bavaria was prepared to offer - so 55hp it was.
 
West Coast said:
55hp is too much, however he considered (correctly in my opinion) that the standard 29hp was too small. 35hp - 40hp would be more sensible but 55hp was all bavaria was prepared to offer - so 55hp it was.
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Don't think that is so. The 2040 was an option at the time. Dont recall the D55 being offered as it is substantially bigger and would be a real tight fit.

As Fireball says the 2030 is perfectly adequate, but I have seen quite a few 36/37/38s with the 2040.
 
I have the shallow keel Bav 37 ... in comparison to the standard deep keel there is little to choose from - as we have a bulb on the bottom - I guess we might get a little more leeway to windward though. The deep lead keel will give better righting moment than the other options though - but you do restrict where you can go ... which is why we chose the shallow keel (and can get round the back of brownsea island and through the cut!)

We also have the 29hp saildrive - it's quite adequate to drive the boat at 7.5kts through the water with a clean bum - this time of year we're back down to 5.5 unless we give it a bit more welly ...
 
We also have the 29hp saildrive - it's quite adequate to drive the boat at 7.5kts through the water with a clean bum - this time of year we're back down to 5.5 unless we give it a bit more welly ...[/QUOTE]

Agreed - in low wind, slight sea conditions, the 29hp will probably drive the boat OK. However, in a sea and strong winds, the Bav has a lot of hull and mast windage and for me the 40hp engine is a must. Perhaps this reflects more typical weather up here in West Coast Scotland!!
 
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