Battery Charger/Switch Panel

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richardbrennan

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Further to my post regarding Rolls batteries; it would appear that I may need a new charger if I go down that route to get the correct charging cycle.

My current charger is French and is I think called a "Hi-Tech Integrale", or something similar, and incorporates switched two AC feeds, one of which goes to the immersion heater in the calorifier and the other to the sockets in the saloon. I cannot find any chargers that incorporate a switch panel on line; does anybody know of a manufacturer of such a beast, I am looking for something in the 30 to 40 amp range?
 
Normally the 240v circuit has a consumer unit with switches to the immersion heater, sockets and battery charger. The charger then has outlet(s) to the batteries. Not familiar with any set up that has the 240V distribution and battery charger in one.

The size of your charger will depend on the size of bank you want to charge, but a 30 or 40 amp is common as that will be sufficient for 4-500AH bank.
 
richardbrennan said:
Further to my post regarding Rolls batteries; it would appear that I may need a new charger if I go down that route to get the correct charging cycle.

My current charger is French and is I think called a "Hi-Tech Integrale", or something similar, and incorporates switched two AC feeds, one of which goes to the immersion heater in the calorifier and the other to the sockets in the saloon. I cannot find any chargers that incorporate a switch panel on line; does anybody know of a manufacturer of such a beast, I am looking for something in the 30 to 40 amp range?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you may have a charger/inverter Richard. If you don't need/use the inverter i'd consider fitting a separate charger and a consumer unit. You could get a small consumer unit, such as those sold by Screwfix, and a Victron charger. If you do need the inverter, then Victron also make some good models, as mentioned in post #2, although the Quatro is an expensive model. I'd still want to see some additional protection though, i'd make sure that there is an onboard RCD and some circuit protection, which the inverter/charger may well not provide.
 
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My current unit is not an inverter, it is a 25 amp charger and just has two additional switches for mains AC. I was not looking to spend the sort of money that the Victron Quattro
merits, it does rather more than I require.
 
richardbrennan said:
Further to my post regarding Rolls batteries; it would appear that I may need a new charger if I go down that route to get the correct charging cycle.

My current charger is French and is I think called a "Hi-Tech Integrale", or something similar, and incorporates switched two AC feeds, one of which goes to the immersion heater in the calorifier and the other to the sockets in the saloon. I cannot find any chargers that incorporate a switch panel on line; does anybody know of a manufacturer of such a beast, I am looking for something in the 30 to 40 amp range?
Click to expand...

There used to be some shorepower units combined with a battery charger on the market but I cannot remember the make and I have not seen them for many years. They were expensive for what they were IIRC so I guess they proved unpopular and are no longer available although at first glance looked like a good idea.

I think your only way forward is separate units. A consumer unit which will provide an RCD and three mcb protected circuits, together with a battery charger of your choice.

A Garage consumer unit will give an RCD and two protected circuits, usually 1x16amp and 1x6amp, but I guess that wont suit your needs. MK offer a "Super garage unit" which contains an RCD and 6 mcbs but that is more than you need. Maybe you will have to start with a bare enclosure and fit what you need,

MK5704SSP1.JPG
 
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richardbrennan said:
Further to my post regarding Rolls batteries; it would appear that I may need a new charger if I go down that route to get the correct charging cycle.

My current charger is French and is I think called a "Hi-Tech Integrale", or something similar, and incorporates switched two AC feeds, one of which goes to the immersion heater in the calorifier and the other to the sockets in the saloon. I cannot find any chargers that incorporate a switch panel on line; does anybody know of a manufacturer of such a beast, I am looking for something in the 30 to 40 amp range?
Click to expand...

I haven't read your other thread so I'm not conversant with your battery choices. But I have a Hi-Tech Intergral charger.

Mine is a dual bank charger (house + starter) and the charger profile can be set for 1 of 4 different battery types. The limitation is that both battery banks must be the same type. I use it with flooded types, T105s and a small automotive starter.

The settings are made with small switches on the PCB when the cover is removed.

I have an electronic copy of the user manual in German and I think I have the printed English version on the boat. Using Google to translate the German gives the following profile information (Voltages are "Boost" and "Float").


Lead calcium, strong recharge 16V/13.8V
Lead / tight, maintenance-free batteries, gelled 14.4V/13.9V
Lead open conventional 14.2V/13.3V
Lead / calcium - standard charge 14.6V/14.0V




Let me know if you want a copy of the manual and I'll PM it.

John
 
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Hi Richard,
If you mean that the Charger has two switchable 230V supplys it sounds like its set up to take supply from either shore power or from a generator. Do you have a generator or socket pre wired to take supply from a generator? If you don't need a 2nd 230V supply option then any , properly sized charger should do the job.

You say that currently, one of the supply lines are wired back to the sockets and the other is wired to the Element of the heat exchanger. This sounds a little strange. Normally the Element in the heat exchanger is supplied through a Switch on the 230V panel. Normally you have 230V coming through the 230V shore power socket , on to the 230V Switch panel where you have seperate switches for 230V Sockets, Charger and Water Heating Element.

Do you have the Boat Manual, they normally give a 230V Power Distribution manual that would show how the Charger is wired.

Rregards, Kinsale 373
 
Thanks John. I think I have a manual on board but I am not sure, and we may not have the same model. I am looking at Rolls AGM batteries and the charging requirements on the Rolls website gives a cycle of 14.5 to 14.9 and a float of 13.6 to 13.8, so the second set of settings you quote would be very close, that's assuming we have the same unit. I'll get back to you if I cannot find my manual.
 
I find it a bit surprising that you want a new battery charger. The battery manufacturers will give details on a charging regime for fastest recharge from low charge level. Now perhaps you want that but it seems to me more likely that most people just want a charger to replace use at dock side and perhaps slowly recharge after a period away from shore power. I can imagine that your existing charger will do that adequately in real life. If not then just giving longer on charge will top up the batteries. I would suggest you fit or monitor battery voltage especially on charge and perhaps fit or monitor charge current. Less than specified charge current or voltage will not affect batteries much. olewill
 
I have to admit to being a complete ignoramus on these matters, but I thought that the correct charging regime was important in maintaining the performance and longevity of batteries?
 
Christec is a french maker of chargers and regulators. I met their rep at SIBS a couple of years ago she was staying at the same hotel. Have a look at their product range it sounds like your existing unit could be one of theirs. They are made in Quimper.
 
I think it may be this charger you have - if this helps anyone

6362846_20170927094309904_1_XLARGE.jpg


richardbrennan said:
Further to my post regarding Rolls batteries; it would appear that I may need a new charger if I go down that route to get the correct charging cycle.

My current charger is French and is I think called a "Hi-Tech Integrale", or something similar, and incorporates switched two AC feeds, one of which goes to the immersion heater in the calorifier and the other to the sockets in the saloon. I cannot find any chargers that incorporate a switch panel on line; does anybody know of a manufacturer of such a beast, I am looking for something in the 30 to 40 amp range?
Click to expand...
 
It looks like the charger has standard 230V trip switches fitted in its case. You should be able to open it up (Mark and take a note of all wiring and move the the 230 V distribution bits to a seperate new small standard electrical enclosure to be mounted close to the existing charger. The existing trip switches look as if they will clip onto a standard din rail in a standard enclosure. This way you seperate the 230 V supply from the charger and can then move to any Charger you wish to use without too much wiring required. It might be a good idea to replace the existing 230V trips with new ones as you are at it as they are not that expensive.
Regards Kinsale 373
 
Thank you all for your input. The Rolls AGM batteries require a cycle of 14.5 to 14.9 volts at 25 degrees centigrade and a float of 13.6 to 13.8. I guess that either the no. 2 setting on my charger of cycle 14.4 and float 13.9 or the no. 4 setting of 14.6 and 14.0 would be close.

If I might ask a supplemental question, I currently have 2 Lifeline 105 A/H batteries as domestics and one Lifeline 105 A/H starter battery and a VSR. Rolls do not seem to do AGM starter batteries, so if I fitted the S12-128AGM x3, which have a CCA of 605, would this be OK to start a Volvo D1-30?
 
You don't need very much to start a D1-30. CCA of 605 is fine. A Red Flash 1000 with a capacity of 32AH is more than enough if just used for engine start. I have a 750 in my 1.8 Morgan, now in its 14th year!
 
Tranona said:
You don't need very much to start a D1-30. CCA of 605 is fine. A Red Flash 1000 with a capacity of 32AH is more than enough if just used for engine start. I have a 750 in my 1.8 Morgan, now in its 14th year!
Click to expand...

To illustrate....

I have a 45Ah Varta car battery to start my 2020D (500cc apx). I estimate 30s glow + 30s cranking (not that I ever need more than 3 seconds cranking) would use less than 0.5% capacity.

I would be tempted to downsize the starter and use the space gained to increase the capacity of the house bank assuming the space you have allows it.

This is also worth a read although many people can't fit them this way without reporting problems.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation

John
 
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