Basic annual costs for keeping a boat in the water

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salgarfi

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Hello All,

As a newbie here, my wife and I are getting closer and closer to making the dive into sailing and getting an appropriate boat, however, I have a rudimentary question.

We presently have an inland cruiser, and to just keep it in the water we need to pay for a mooring, insurance, and a Canal and River Trust licence, also we have the four yearly inspection for a boat safety certificate. I have searched high and low and I cannot find any references to needing a boat safety certificate, nor anything similar to a CRT licence for a sailing boat. Is that really the case, and our bottom line expenses for just putting a boat in the water would be a mooring and insurance?

Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Sal
 
salgarfi said:
Is that really the case, and our bottom line expenses for just putting a boat in the water would be a mooring and insurance?

Am I missing something?
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I wish my costs were just that, but basically you're right. No BSS and no licence.

Your insurance company will usuallly ask for a seven yearly survey if older than about 20 years. You can often talk them out of it for a low value boat, at the obvious risk that they may use something that would've been spotted by a surveyor to get out of a claim. So in effect, although there's no BSS you'll have to do the equivalent maintenance anyway, just less bureaucracy and more room to negotiate with your insurance company if you disagree over a mindless rule.

Lift outs and anti-fouling always seem to cost. You can dry out and anti-foul as an alternative. If you don't your boat will be difficult to get moving through the water after a year or so. If you get a small boat you can launch yourself then there's usually fees for the hards.

Then all the usual maintenance stuff, new sails etc. It all adds up.
 
These are questions best left alone.

If there is a more expensive method of travelling than sailing-apart from owning an aeroplane-I have yet to hear of it.

The rewards, however, can be wonderful.................................
 
lpdsn said:
I wish my costs were just that, but basically you're right. No BSS and no licence.

Your insurance company will usuallly ask for a seven yearly survey if older than about 20 years. You can often talk them out of it for a low value boat, at the obvious risk that they may use something that would've been spotted by a surveyor to get out of a claim. So in effect, although there's no BSS you'll have to do the equivalent maintenance anyway, just less bureaucracy and more room to negotiate with your insurance company if you disagree over a mindless rule.

Lift outs and anti-fouling always seem to cost. You can dry out and anti-foul as an alternative. If you don't your boat will be difficult to get moving through the water after a year or so. If you get a small boat you can launch yourself then there's usually fees for the hards.

Then all the usual maintenance stuff, new sails etc. It all adds up.
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Anti-fouling or blacking is needed on the inland waters as well, but DIY anti fouling on a drying out mooring (on firm sand) would be cheaper than hauling a boat out of the cut. Re a survey for insurers, would they require a full out of water survey, and if so, will surveyors look over a boat on a dry mooring?
 
Location is a significant factor in your costs, as are the boat value and your own attitude and requirements.
I spend under £500 a year but the downside is that the boat lives on the mooring all year round and I have to do any below-waterline maintenance by drying out, which I can do for free a short walk from my house. I can't get fully comp insurance due to: the boat's age; that she lives on a mooring year round; and that the mooring was laid by a friend, not a commercial mooring provider who would have their own insurance.
So my costs are: replacing bits of the mooring as necessary, oil and filters for the engine, tin of antifoul., 3rd party insurance.
 
salgarfi said:
Anti-fouling or blacking is needed on the inland waters as well, but DIY anti fouling on a drying out mooring (on firm sand) would be cheaper than hauling a boat out of the cut. Re a survey for insurers, would they require a full out of water survey, and if so, will surveyors look over a boat on a dry mooring?
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The insurance company only require it to be carried out by a surveyor with professional indemnity insurance. It all depends on what you can get the surveyor to do, but as insurance is a major part of their own costs* they obviously want to be cautious about being able to examine the boat properly lest a claim ups their insurance premium.

There are cheaper ways to lift out than at a boatyard. I know someone who manages to hire his own crane at low rates (the secret is apparently to get a self-employed crane driver who has a gap in his main work, usually at a weekend) and lifts out at fishing ports (but at ones where he knows a lot of the people - fishermen might not be so tolerant of a complete stranger). Sometimes clubs will hire a crane and lift out 20 or 30 boats at one go and share the costs between the owners.
 
salgarfi said:
Hello All,

As a newbie here, my wife and I are getting closer and closer to making the dive into sailing and getting an appropriate boat, however, I have a rudimentary question.

We presently have an inland cruiser, and to just keep it in the water we need to pay for a mooring, insurance, and a Canal and River Trust licence, also we have the four yearly inspection for a boat safety certificate. I have searched high and low and I cannot find any references to needing a boat safety certificate, nor anything similar to a CRT licence for a sailing boat. Is that really the case, and our bottom line expenses for just putting a boat in the water would be a mooring and insurance?

Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Sal
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Many, probably most, harbour authorities will also charge some form of " harbour dues

I own my own mooring ... so I have maintenace costs to consider on that ( eg new chain periodically and regular inspections)

The harbour charged me £120 site rental in 2017 for a drying mooring capable of taking a boat up to 9 metres.

In addition I paid annual "harbour dues" of £52 ( for a 19ft boat) and a few quid more for the dinghy.

On top of that I pay an annual fee to the boat yard where I keep the boat in the winter, keep the dinghy, park the car and have access to yard facilities such as toilet, shower, an excellent kitchen, comfy seating and good company
 
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I'm thinking of mooring our boat, when we get one (I'm being positive), in the Aber Teifi estuary. There's a one off fee for putting a mooring in (a drying mooring), with a yearly charge of £170. If we were to leave the estuary, we would be able to sell the mooring on. On top of that, we (as a couple) can join the local club for £86 p/a which would give us access to their facilities (and storage on land, but on a trailer) and a floating quay. There are no harbour dues as far as I know. So I guess we'd be in a similar position to you, Vic.
 
We keep or boat on Windermere. We pay annual registration of £25, mooring fees of £1080 and 3rd party insurance this year is 86 quid. Our old mooring on Ullswater was just under 400 quid a year and insurance the same.
 
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Don't forget:
depreciation. On a new boat this will be LOTS, less on an older boat but you then have to pay more to replace ancient or worn-out bits.
Loss of interest on capital. Much depends on whether you have to borrow to pay for the boat as interest rates will be higher. But let's suppose you had enough saved up to buy that boat, and that well invested money can grow at 5% per annum and that you paid 20k for the boat. You thus have 20k less invested and are missing out on 20k x 5% which is £1000 pre year. People tend to forget this!
For the record, my little 25' cruising yacht costs, with the above and all the other costs mentioned in this thread, about £4k per year. (I have a very cheap pontoon mooring through membership of a club.) This assumes I do most maintenance myself rather than paying someone else to do it. On the other hand, she does provide some very cheap holidays!
 
Not so sure about depreciation.
My pal bought a new Bavaria which he traded in after four (I think)
years for about the same as he paid. He's now got another new Bavaria. The deal included transferring his instruments to the new one.
I'm not in that league but have never sold a boat for less than I bought it (I don't count the cost of upgrades though).
blackbeard said:
Don't forget:
depreciation. On a new boat this will be LOTS, less on an older boat but you then have to pay more to replace ancient or worn-out bits.
Loss of interest on capital. Much depends on whether you have to borrow to pay for the boat as interest rates will be higher. But let's suppose you had enough saved up to buy that boat, and that well invested money can grow at 5% per annum and that you paid 20k for the boat. You thus have 20k less invested and are missing out on 20k x 5% which is £1000 pre year. People tend to forget this!
For the record, my little 25' cruising yacht costs, with the above and all the other costs mentioned in this thread, about £4k per year. (I have a very cheap pontoon mooring through membership of a club.) This assumes I do most maintenance myself rather than paying someone else to do it. On the other hand, she does provide some very cheap holidays!
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I know the question asked primarily about bureaucratic-type costs, but one cost that hasn't been mentioned much is "stuff".
You already have a boat so know that it is essential to buy important and nice things for her.... ;)

However, yachts up the ante a bit more and everything is more expensive either because of the yottie premium, or just because it has to be made of expensive marine grade stuff.

Charts- go out of date (and/or you "need" to buy a plotter), foul weather gear, nav. instruments, sails at some point, things lost overboard... Best not to consider probably!
Seriously though, foul weather gear can be a not insignificant recurring cost. For 2 of you, a low-middle range set (eg Musto br1 top +bottom) will set you back around £600. They don't stay waterproof all that long, from what I've found: 3-6 years? (There are pages &pages of threads on this topic). I've been scouting around to work out what to buy and so many people are meaning to replace theirs...just getting one more season out of them.

Mooring-if you'll be doing more than day sailing, this will cost: when we had 2 weeks on a narrowboat, I was surprised that you can just stop (almost) where you like, at no cost. Other than anchoring, for which there are fewer opportunities and even then there may be dues to be paid, you have to pay for mooring.

One other very important thing is VHF- various licensing elements: the VHF must be licensed to the vessel, which is a small recurring cost and you need the RYA SRC operators licence, which is a one off course, probably ca£200 if you go on a two day course.

But going back to your question, the relative lack of bureaucracy and freedom is one of the joys of sailing.
 
mogmog2 said:
One other very important thing is VHF- various licensing elements: the VHF must be licensed to the vessel, which is a small recurring cost and you need the RYA SRC operators licence, which is a one off course, probably ca£200 if you go on a two day course.

But going back to your question, the relative lack of bureaucracy and freedom is one of the joys of sailing.
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Minor clarification - The Ships Radio License is free and covers the lifetime of your ownership. You are right that the personal license costs a couple of hundred but again is for life ( or until they change the scheme again as they did when DSC was introduced)
 
Spuddy said:
Some tidal rivers require a licence
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Not sure everywhere else but I have found on the Medway Tidal stretch Rochester bridge Being the Limit the clubs that controll the moorings. the required licences are stated in your mooring costs as a package required

My suggestion would be to search round as prices of moorings can vary considerably even on the same stretch
 
Another datapoint. Sailing can be addictive. I started out several years ago on a little 23 footer on a swinging mooring with a club shuttle service at weekends.

I now own a 30 foot yacht in a marina. The novelty of having to get a water taxi or use a tender to reach your boat on a swinging mooring when there's a marina nearby where you have mains electricity, water and the ability to just walk on and off wears off quickly.

Between marina fees and the annual maintenance I budget about £5000 a year.
 
Yes.., I'm aware of the further costs, but as said in #16, I was interested in the basic costs of keeping a boat in the water.

Concerning the radio licence, though, once we bought our boat, do we have to take the VHF course and get a personal licence before we can actually use the radio, or is there a period of grace?

And concerning narrowboat mooring, it may seem free, but the yearly licence pays for that. For a 50' boat (a not uncommon size) that can be more than £800 or £1000 depending on your payment method, ie one off or installments.
 
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