I heard yesterday that a brand new Bavaria 39 Cruiser had been sold for £75K by Lombard who held the mortgage on this Peters stock boat. Does anyone else know of any prices being asked for the larger boats?
Why not simply ask the receivers? But I don't want to encourage you to buy a boat that some poor person has probably paid (and lost) a substantial deposit on.
I do not know how Peters Opal mortgaged their boats. There are a number of possibilities including:
1) Individual mortgages over specific boats (pretty unlikely)
2) Stock-plan financing, whereby the lender (Lombard) paid the suppliers invoices and held a mortgage debenture covering all boats so financed.
3)Another scenario was that Lombard held a mortgage debenture giving them a charge over all boats on the premises, whether directly financed by them or not.
In any of those cases, once the charge has been crystallised by receivership the boats are the finance company's to sell, and any deposit paid to the the mortgagor (Peters Opal) is simply an unsecured debt of the now failed company. A grim situation for those that have paid deposits, or in some cases made almost full payment.
Plain sailing at Brixham seem to be handling some of the sales of vessels at Brixham - they also sent out a newsletter advertising what looks like a substantial amount of new stock boats. I deleted the letter or I would have posted it for you. And yes, there were some good prices particularly on Bavarias - but not quite so attractive on the Island Packets where the bigger the vessel the less the discount - or so it appeared.
Give PS a call/mail, I'm sure George would email you a copy of the offer price list.
I understand that there are about 30 unmortgaged used stock boats belonging entirely to Peters Opal. I am guessing that these were taken into stock against new boats.
Of these, about half are sailing yachts , mostly Bavaria or Legend in the range 27 ft. to 34 ft. The balance are motor boats of one sort or another.
It was widely reported that the administrators were looking to find a buyer for the business as a whole by last weekend.
So far there seems to be no news on any buyers close to doing a deal unless anyone would like to share any different information.
It also seems logical that any deals to be done on Peters Opal wholly-owned stock would happen either after the business is taken over or, if a buyer is not found, when it goes into receivership. Then there should be some deals to be done.
I would be cautious about believing rumour and conjecture. We have a great number of people in this country who sit down the pub telling their mates what a great deal they got on this or that, only to fail to mention one aspect or another 9or just make it up completely.
That said, £195k list (which we all know for a Bav is atrificially high - PO were the master of phonie list prices but offering seeminlgly huge discounts) so lets say, dealer margin of 25% pre vat, 195000/1.175 x 75% = 124,468.08. Lombard probably only mortgaged 90% of the value ex VAT, so their debt is 112,021.27 + VAT (or £131,624.99 as a minmum retail price to recover their inital outlay). Add in their lost interest and fees, £140k might just cover it.
I saw the Bav 39 in Chi lock today as he was leaving. The mast was strapped fore and aft still in its wrapping, the boat wasn't antifouled, and he'd bought it from Lombard for £74,500. Bargain ?
I hope the new owner had a smile on his face - I suppose there is always someone ready to benefit at the expense of others less fortunate.. In the case of Peters Opal through the negligence of company directors who chose to use the funds in their client accounts which they supposedly held in 'trust 'to prop up their ailing business - Shame on them.
I take it that you are not one of the unfortunate - or else you might have a different opinion. I am not criticizing merely stating fact, like it or not.
.......actually you should applaud the sale of assets. The more cash raised the more available to pay out those unfortunate enough to have lost cash. I do sympathise with you all, it is a rotten state. But someone will buy the boats, so not really right to criticize. Have a go at the management all you want..
Why would I want to applaud the sale of assets ? The first in the queue when this happens is the administrators, the bank and the Inland Revenue. That is why assets are sold - not because the priority is to pay redundancy or owed salaries to the 150 or so people that have lost their jobs, or the small businesses in jeopardy of being put out of business or to the customers who trusted Peters Opal with their money.
Angela, I gather you did lose a considerable sum of money in this debacle. However, I'm told it should be the buyer of your boat that should lose out, and that title does not pass to the new owner until funds are received by yourself. No doubt you're getting good advice, but whatever, someone will lose money. I hope, incidentally, that I have not mixed you up with someone else.
Very best of luck - the whole of Chichester Marina's bertholders feel for you and others who have lost out. There's a lot of very angry ex Peters employees that are waiting for Mr Peters return to the UK!!
I'm not sure that there is a solution, but I certainly feel uncomfortable that some people are driving around in bargains whilst others are nursing debts with nothing to show for it. However you look at it, those debts have funded the bargains to some degree.
My experience of two administrations is that ordinary creditors get nothing, so the quick cash doesn't go to the people that really need it, but to the government and finance institutions.
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.......actually you should applaud the sale of assets. The more cash raised the more available to pay out those unfortunate enough to have lost cash.
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You would be amazed at how much the administrators and their advisors will be taking out of the cash realized before a penny is available for anyone else - they will be making sure that there is enough to pay their bills, and will not be concerned in the slightest whether anyone else gets paid or not. That is not to say that they wont be "seen" to have done a "reasonable" job.... of course they will.
These guys, and their advisors, are £250 to £500 per hour "professionals", and there wont be just one or two of them. Their targets will be based on hours billed, or fees generated and, once they've got the job, their goal will be to squeeze as much out of it as possible, without crossing the "reasonable" line.
So dont be too sure that sales of assets generates cash for creditors....
Nicho
Thanks for your kind words and no you haven't got me mixed up ! Yes we are 'missing' a considerable amount of money so much so, that to fund legal fees we may have to consider selling our home. No I am not looking for sympathy - just answers, a secure future and the right to leave my children what my husband and I have worked so very hard for. So for those reading these posts and feeling that I might be being a little unfair - I make no apologies !
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that to fund legal fees we may have to consider selling our home.
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Angela,
Forgive me for poking my nose in, but I am in a similar position to you, in relation to a property, not to a boat, and the sums involved are about a third of yours, IIRC ....
It's not for me to tell you what to do, but I would rather have a home and no boat, than no home, and no boat.
I began to take legal advice on my matter, and was given all kinds of reassurances that I had a very strong case. After shelling out some legal fees at £250 per hour, it became fairly clear that the reassurances were worthless, and the receiver/trustee was in the driving seat. In a similar way to administrators, I have a view that solicitors on an hourly rate are motivated to keep things going until they have to reluctantly advise their clients that they are probably not going to be successful, just before submitting their final bill.
I stopped the legal stuff, which would probably have cost me as much as I had to gain, (or more), and drew a line under my losses at that point.
All I would ask is that you think long and hard about whether it is worth risking your house and, if you decide it is, instruct your solicitor to get a barristers opinion as soon as possible - I have always found that barristers tell it like it is, where solicitors prolong the agony.