Bargain Berths

[Nautorius]

A well known Broker has just informed me that the largest UK Marina Operator are offering Brokers incentives to sell berthing with their new and second hand boats. This is because their Marinas (even on the Hamble) have space in August.

Could this be the end of the ridiculous Price rises in Solent Marinas of recent years.

I also wonder why the Marina Operator will give a rebate (kickback) to the Brokerage and dealers but not discount direct! I am sure they have finally realised that Berths are Price Elastic and that if you need to fill them you drop the price! ARE TIMES FINALLY CHANGING IN 'RIP OFF SOLENT'

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Channel Ribs]

[ QUOTE ]
I also wonder why the Marina Operator will give a rebate (kickback) to the Brokerage and dealers but not discount direct!

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the kickback is a one off, but a discount or price drop would lower the 'value' of the berths - causing a run on the marinas with people queing up for a discount like the chap next door just got.

 

[gjgm]

yes there was an "announcement" today, but perhaps this is just formalising it. I know Universal were paying brokers a commission if the broker could get them berthholders, so I m not sure its not a new practice.
Of course, it would be nice to have cheaper berthing, but I wonder what the correlation is between boat values and berthing costs is, now compared to say 5 years ago? I dont know how profitable marinas are, MDL is private, isnt it? Pontoons,staffing,environment, insurance.. they must have quite some outgoings too.
What does a car park at heathrow cost? Or a pitch on a top campsite? Dont think anything is cheap these days... are marinas really worse than anything else?

 

[rwoofer]

I think any cost debate based on marina outgoing's falls flat by just comparing like to like with marinas on the continent.

 

[DAKA]

Not really the same.
Land on the south coast of UK is very valuable and if you southern softies with easy earnings dont cough up enough, Port Solent will be land filled and built on, then you would have to swing /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[ChrisKaye]

"southern softies with easy earnings"

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Easy !

 

[BrokerBen]

You are aware what we are being charged for berths right?

You can pay £10k for a 40 foot berth on the hamble before you've had any lifts or electricity or anything...

grossed up that is a decent chunk of cash!

 

[gjgm]

I m not going to suggest its a bargain, but is that expensive?
Whats a good hotel a night? £150-300? Whats a top meal for four-£500-1000? What would you pay for a garage in Mayfair?
So you(maybe not you, personally) want to keep your £250k+ boat in the most convenient and premier location in the UK. Is £10k alot?
I couldnt afford it-well, wouldnt, perhaps,but whats a fancy family holiday ? £5k, £10K? More? Whats a top golf club? £10k?
Dont get my wrong, I d much rather marina berths were cheaper, but ...

 

[Channel Ribs]

Part of the issue may be that the berth is a boating expense which you never 'enjoy' therefore the value for money always seems a bit off kilter.

Unless you have a really good marina with great facilities and a community, all the berth does is provide a safe place to leave your pride and joy.

10k on a holiday, great. 10k on something you never see, not so great.

I suppose for real value for money we should all remind ourselves that the boat is safe and ready to use, even when we cant see it, mind you I just worry that the wash boards still leak and it has been raining all Summer. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Fire99]

[ QUOTE ]
I m not going to suggest its a bargain, but is that expensive?
Whats a good hotel a night? £150-300? Whats a top meal for four-£500-1000? What would you pay for a garage in Mayfair?
So you(maybe not you, personally) want to keep your £250k+ boat in the most convenient and premier location in the UK. Is £10k alot?
I couldnt afford it-well, wouldnt, perhaps,but whats a fancy family holiday ? £5k, £10K? More? Whats a top golf club? £10k?
Dont get my wrong, I d much rather marina berths were cheaper, but ...

[/ QUOTE ]

£10k for a family holiday? only for some top earners IMO. Well certainly not me. Top meal for 4 - £1000?? where do you eat?? I'm sorry but i've had some excellent meals but those figures are way out.. as i say for all but the top earners..

Also the point is, OK you could spend that kind of money as a One-Off but for you're boat you are paying mooring fees each and every day. £10k is each and every year. Not just a one-off payment. And you're boat may be worth a hell of alot less than £250k and still be of considerable size.

IMO the Hamble region (which i have visited once) is rediculously priced. And it is because there are still a large number of people willing to pay the money who think the prices i would collapse over are quite acceptable.

However, IMO that elitests the area and prices out everyone else who invest a large part of their income into their boat but cannot afford such 'luxuary'.

I guess its like property so its totally understandable why it happens.. but does it make it right? No..

Infact i would understand if more if visitors prices were kept to a minimum so the less well off could visit but that isn't the case either.. (from my experience at Yarmouth in May)

I think this highlights the huge differences in income between people in the UK - and particularly in this case, boat owners.

regards,

Nick

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

[ QUOTE ]
Whats a top meal for four-£500-1000?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'll let you treat me to dinner as you obviously eat at some really nice restaurants /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The point is really that even with a £250k boat some peeps will have to cut back on other expenses like hols and fancy cars to afford to own and keep it so a £10k whack for berthing is still a big lump of money to some owners especially as it's one of those necessary evil type expenses. You've gotta pay it but you don't actually see anything tangible for your money

 

[gjgm]

not my level of expense either, but I m simply suggesting that if you want the "best" (assuming, here, the top Solent location), should that really be having some different economics to the "top" in anything else. Everyone seems to love Gordon Ramsay, and I m sure you cant phone up and get a table for tonight, and if you did, it is going to be way over £500 for 4 assuming your delving into the wine list. Dont like Hamble Point much myself, but I dont recall it being filled with old wooden sailing boats worth £20k.
Want an exclusive top holiday? £2.5k each.. are you kidding?
Want a bottle of 78 Petrus?
Want a top marina ? I dont know whether £8k is reasonable and £10k is outrageous, but my sympathy would be for someone running a 15year old motor boat worth £30k and having to pay £4k in a marina, before I m shedding too many tears for someone with a boat worth ten times that paying just over double in marina fees. Seems to me the latter is getting a relatively good deal.
Still, fairly soon we ll be spending more in fuel than marinas, and then we ll have something else to worry about /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[gjgm]

sure Mike, I m not saying that everyone with a £250k boat is loaded to the hilt, and doubtless many do make compromises elsewhere,but if they didnt have a boat....how much might they spend a year on eating out, on holidays, on cars, on whatever other interests they had. I mean a weeks family ski holiday in a chalet can soon chomp through your money too.
Leisure is a big and expensive game, boating being just one of them.

 

[PEJ]

Interesting topic this.

I pay about 3% of the cost of my boat in annual berthing fees but for the smaller but cheaper boat I had before is was more like 10%.

Would any anyone else care to "publish" their figures?

I wonder if there is a consistent average ratio of cost of boat to cost of berth. In theory the cheaper boats go to the cheaper moorings. A friend of mine pays less than 1% for his.

 

[gjgm]

what are you including in "costs" as that makes a huge difference to the result? If I have £100k in my bank and buy a boat, do I have different costs to someone with £10k in the bank and borrows £90k ? Depreciation? Those are two horrendous numbers that are best kicked under the bed!
If one wants to be horribly brutal, on £100k boat, I think its anything up to £20k a year, a Solent marina being maybe 20-25pct.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Novel way of looking at relative berthing costs. About 2.5% in my case

 

[alt]

Christ i'd hate to be in the UK, I pay about 0.30-0.35% the value of my boat per year... and i've only a little 25footer

 

[amf]

3.3% for 11m boat in Port Solent