Bank accounts

[stevesales]

Now I am in the final throes of saying goodbye to Europe I am having fun with banks. They are already working for the security services as part of the 'let's destroy civil liberty using the excuse of terrorism' principle and find it hard to cope with being told I don't have an electricity or phone bill to show them let alone a fixed address.
I have no desire to maintain an existing account tied to an address in Europe.
I would prefer to have an account in IOW/Channel Islands rather than the People's Republic of Marzipan but the latter option, with all its associated difficulties, seems to be the only one available.
Any thoughts from 'em as 'as dunnit?

 

[charles_reed]

Re: Opening Bank accounts

If you get a letter of introduction from your current bank, preferably a correspondent bank to the one you're approaching, you'll find all these problems disappear.

If you can't get a letter from a bank who has known you for a number of years you'v got problems.

For that reason, even if you don't use itit's best to keep an account in the UK.

 

[AndrewB]

The problem that liveaboards are treated like bankrupts for any type of financial dealing has been with us for some years now. In 1998, I was refused a mortgage for a new house by a major building society with whom I'd had an account for 20 years, on the grounds that I had no fixed address - Catch 22! The local manager who knew me well begged me to lie. Fortunately my bank (NatWest) proved more flexible - I'd also advise you to keep a UK account open.

There are ways round these things of course, using an accomodation address to which you get your mobile phone bill addressed (that is considered a utility) and use as evidence, but it's all pointless hassle. Big brotherdom, yes, but what does big brother get out of it?

 

[Sea Devil]

You can use any address on your bank account - anywhere - keep it open for goodness sake just leave £1 in it. Keep some credit cards as well - the sailing master card is FOC - so you do not need to use it.

If you do not have a UK address you will find impossible to obtain credit cards or new bank accounts and that can be a pain...

To be fair most european countries outside the UK I have lived in made it really easy to open accounts but in those days I had a fair amount of dosh and an address in that country.......

 

[stevesales]

Re: Opening Bank accounts

[ QUOTE ]
'If you get a letter of introduction from your current bank, preferably a correspondent bank to the one you're approaching, you'll find all these problems disappear.'

Sadly not any more. Opening an account in the same bank with different personal details kicks in the 'due diligence' crap with certified passports and electricity bills needed.
Re ex-Bambola (sorry to hear you're departed, by the way, I didn't know there was email after death.)
Having an open bank account with an address in an EU country may be used as proof of residence by the Evil Beings who wish to take part (or most) of any of life's little successes -I wish there was a spell check on here 'successes' looks wrong.

 

[Guest]

Re: Opening Bank accounts

It no doubt depends on tha policies at a particular bank. Usually, if the other bank is a UK regulated financial institution, it should be enough, unless the rules have changed recently. The requirement to establish properly the identity of the client was introduced by the EU Money Laundering Directive, so there will be similar rules throughout Europe. Some countries' banks may be more enthusiastic at sticking to the law than others.

Obviously, if they're lending money they'll want to find out about you for their own benefit anyway.

 

[RPC]

Keeping a bank account open in the UK whilst away cruising has it's own problems.
We cruised for 10 years, leaving an account in the UK for our return. No such luck! I did not use the account while away so it was closed for me by the bank with a cheque for the small amount I had left there to keep it going (over £100). I had banked with them since I was a kid. No loyalty these days. I think it took them about 2 years to decide to close it (maybe 3).

I had a hell of a job opening a new account on my return, I was treated like I was a criminal. No permanant address, no UK bills etc.

I had better not say how I got around the problem, but lets just say that one has to be creative. The sad thing is I am sure terrorists are creative as well and could just do the same as I did!!!

Make sure you do some transactions on an account whilst away to avoid a similar fate.

 

[stevesales]

Spot on RPC,
I'd be interested in a PM if you have the time.

 

[charles_reed]

Obviously a suspicious

person.

I opened one in Italy within the last 6 months using just that method.

Mind you I hadn't changed name, sex or address.

You should, if you don't already have, keep a permanent address - if no friends or relatives will do it for you either an accountant or a solictor will do.

Of course if you are trying to evade direct taxes, don't moan - your experience shows the system works.

 

[Anonymous]

Like most of the other liveaboards, I have kept a permanent address in the UK - I use a relative's address for official stuff like Tax, Banks, Car registration, etc. and have a mailbox from MBE (do a google) for normal correspondence. I use First Direct which is an internet/telephone bank and I can do my banking 24/365 by phone from anywhere in the world. They are very good, and the people there always put you through to a specialist department if they can't help. They are well-trained and appear to live in Clapham rather than Calcutta, which is a major issue - I don't like to see our service jobs being exported!

 

[stevesales]

Re: Obviously a suspicious

Not suspicious at all and I take exception to the 'e' word; people who can prove they are not domiciled in a country have, under certain circumstances, no legal requirement to pay that country's taxes.
Living aboard a boat can produce that rarest of situations where one has no country of domicile presuming that one has given up burial plot/ British Legion membership/mistress flat or any other address in a country which might otherwise expect one to contribute to their governmental follies.
Possibly a solicitor could be used as a forwarding address with no repercussions but don't bet on it, a PO box is not acceptable to most banks and usually (definitely in the Channel Islands) requires proof of residence.
Rumour has it that the UK government will cease to pay OAP to non residents as of 2010 because they don't have the vote and are therefore non-persons.
Concentrate the mind at all?

 

[AndrewB]

PO box

[ QUOTE ]
a PO box is not acceptable to most banks and usually (definitely in the Channel Islands) requires proof of residence.


[/ QUOTE ]I was able to get one in England by proof of EMPLOYMENT rather than residence (letter from my employers). Once I had one, surprisingly it was acceptable as a registered address to most (but not all) banks, tax office, etc etc. One problem though was it didn't 'compute' for car insurance.

 

[charles_reed]

I think you have to face the fact

If you arrange matters to avoid paying tax you'll find developed societies and their governments are pretty unwelcoming - you're considered a free-loader and less desirable than even economic migrants.
This dissuasion will extend to the banks of those countries. The money laundering laws have been set up to catch those who, instead of just using the loopholes, blatantly breakthe law.

Just to remind people these requirements to prove you are an upright member of the community came in long before 9/11 and are an attempt by governments to get their rake-off from all that grey and black money flowing around internationally.

As far as I know the only European country where a boat can be used as a valid domiciliary address is France, but the boat has to be French-registered and you have to pay local taxes. In fact there is a considerable degree of compulsion - if your boat is your sole address you HAVE after 6 months to conform to French matriculation requirements or have the boat confiscated and yourself in front of a Tribunal de Grande Instance.

With regard to the rumour you have heard - I suspect it has got a trifle garbled in transmission, there has been an EC suggestion that long-term residents in another EC country are administered by the local state pension board - in view of the underfunded state of Italian, French and German state pension funds I doubt it will see the light of day.

In any case the UK OAP is intended to provide an ever-smaller part of retirement income and by 2010 is likely to be virtually worthless./forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Sea Devil]

Re: I think you have to face the fact

As far as I know the only European country where a boat can be used as a valid domiciliary address is France,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this also applies to the UK - my valid address to pay UK tax as a non resident for many years was my boat - the IR of the UK know lots of people live and travel in boats and it presents no problems. The problems you have in obtaining UK credit cards and bank accounts are pretty big unless you have a UK address - therefore hang on and keep using your UK accounts - strangely the French and Dutch are much more laid back about this - I have no experience of other EU countries..

 

[stevesales]

Re: I think you have to face the fact

[ QUOTE ]
'If you arrange matters to avoid paying tax you'll find developed societies and their governments are pretty unwelcoming - you're considered a free-loader and less desirable than even economic migrants.
This dissuasion will extend to the banks of those countries. The money laundering laws have been set up to catch those who, instead of just using the loopholes, blatantly breakthe law.

Just to remind people these requirements to prove you are an upright member of the community came in long before 9/11 and are an attempt by governments to get their rake-off from all that grey and black money flowing around internationally.'

Are you a retired tax inspector ?
If not, descend from your hobby horse and listen.

It is not breaking the law (of which country?) to choose a country of domicile that offers favourable tax incentives. Despite what you say many countries legally welcome investment from tax exiles, shelter them and provide acceptable means to do business unfettered by absurd taxation demands.

What is all this 'upright member of the community' stuff ?
Is your Prime Minister or his ex Home Secretary an 'upright member of the community' ?

None of the recent requirements came so solidly into force before 9/11

I had hoped for a little more anarchy among this membership, never mind, get back to scraping barnacles of your bottom and forget that there really is a world out there that doesn't feel the need to subsidise corrupt Governments.