Baltic lifebouys - what's the point?

Seagreen

Seagreen

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Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

No really. Too darn light to throw into any breeze, too small to get your body, or even your arm through. If you <u>can</u> do this, they will happily keep your head a perfect 6 inches under the water. And I've never found one who's light actually worked.
Spend on better lifejackets.
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

[ QUOTE ]
Spend on better lifejackets

[/ QUOTE ] but they are even more difficult to throw into a breeze
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

Sorry, I don't believe your comment. It's a flotation device with positive buoyancy, not a lead weight.

Can you explain how it keeps heads under water ?
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

Used to differentiate between private owners who have one and charter boats who have two on the stern and therefore should be given a wide berth. Ours is attached to a long pole with a flag and light etc, I planned to chuck the whole lot over the side if someone fell over board. However if you want to throw something we have one of those lines in a bag widgets. Must try it sometime but do wonder if the string will go back in the bag afterwards, been caught like that before (aux engine recoil spring /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif)

Pete
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

[ QUOTE ]
... However if you want to throw something we have one of those lines in a bag widgets. Must try it sometime but do wonder if the string will go back in the bag afterwards, been caught like that before (aux engine recoil spring /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif)

Pete

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it does go in, quite easily (stuff it in, don't make a neat coil), and it's worth practising because you can't throw it as far as you think.
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

You'd appreciate it soon enough if you ever needed it!
It needs to be ready for immediate use, get it over the side before yacht and casualty separate too far.
Particularly at night, yacht and mob can meet at the light. Or at least you know the course between casualty and light.
Must have an effective weighted drogue.
No moving parts, unlike LJ!
The line between the light and the buoy is a good target for a boathook.
If the lights don't work, I suggest you fix them before a night passage!
That's my theory, interested to see any better ideas!
Racing rules require two, one immediately deployable by the helm iirc. Don't know how that works on a centre cockpit boat?
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

They are very important - without them you aren't allowed to race /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

What is worse for racing rules the lifebuoy has to be attached to a danbuoy, drogue AND light, that pretty well rules out throwing it at all.

The usual idea is that you deploy the lifebuoy on your first return to the MoB in case you can't immediately retrieve the MoB.

However in my case I would always use the lifesling in preference as that stays attached to the boat. I really can't imagine in what circumstances I would use the lifebuoy
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

Well, all the ones I've seen, I've picked up and tried to grasp. Imagine that its dark, you're in the water and panicking. In full foulies, try and think how you'd keep a firm grip on the slippery little things. All the ones I've seen on various boats are not big enough to climb onto, nor can you slip them round your body. All I've been able to do is get one arm through the middle and clasp my hands together. If I was floating without a lifejacket and relaxed, my head would be under the water.

The Danbouy and light are fine. Great. Shame about the lifebouy. I've a couple of commercial old kisby type circular ones, and i can put one of those over my 44" chest and stay relaxed, so I may be fitting one of those to the boat. Also I don't want to race, unless its against other old gaff yawls.

If someone can direct me to a site which shows just how useful these things actually are, I'd be amazed. If that sounds like the James Randi Skeptics Society challenge, then it is.
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

[ QUOTE ]
I really can't imagine in what circumstances I would use the lifebuoy

[/ QUOTE ]

So why strap one to the rail, then? If only to please the RORC, or whomever? What scientific or practical evidence is there that the Baltic type of bouy is more effective than a couple of 6 pint milk containers filled with foam and tied together?
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

[ QUOTE ]

So why strap one to the rail, then? If only to please the RORC, or whomever? What scientific or practical evidence is there that the Baltic type of bouy is more effective than a couple of 6 pint milk containers filled with foam and tied together?

[/ QUOTE ]
Good question - I auppoae because everyone else does.
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

Fits round my 42" chest if only sideways. Lifejacket would be a big problem, but if I was wearing one, I wouldn't need floatation, but could attach rope to built in LJ harness - which also would have prevented MOB if attached in the first place!

My Baltic is tied to boat with a long floating line. If (God forbid) MOB it will be thrown in the water immediately & I will then sail or motor around casualty so that line comes around MOB. I can then heave-to or stop & pull casualty to boat leaving only the final stage of deploying boarding ladder & recovering MOB.

Never actually tested in anger tho' thank God!
 
Re: Baltic lifebouys - what\'s the point?

This is my point. Has anyone actually tested one of these things in anger? Are these meant to be thrown in as a standalone float to assist the casualty or part of a "line retrieval system" with Dan bouy, light and drogue to stop the lot being blown away?

Scenario: There are just two of you on the boat, so one of you is in the water whilst the other - the experienced one -is onboard.

My boat normally does about 6 knots in a decent F3, and if someone fell in without a lifejacket at that speed, it would take about 6 seconds to get the bouy into the water, in which time the boat would have moved some 60 feet or about 20 metres. The bouy would be 20m from the casualty, cold shocked and panicking, before any attempt had been made to stop the boat or start the engine. The casualty has to get their act together enough to swim 20m in cold seawater, and that's only if they can see the danbouy and swim in the right direction. In a choppy F3 sea, I'm thinking an average swimmer in full clothing might manage 1 metre every 5 seconds. They'll take 2 minutes just to get to the bouy.

Now, if the engine cooling seacock is open and the engine key is in the ignition, it will take another 10 seconds to start the engine, thats another 30m. You are now about 50m from the casualty, in a straight line.

Add to this about 15-20 second to furl the jib, remember to press the mob button and start turning the boat around, you will now be some 100-150m from the guy in the water. On turning the boat, you may also create an arc in the safety line attaching the bouy to the boat, and start dragging the thing after you just as the swimmer is about to reach it. If the seacock was shut, and the engine battery off, then you can double the time to get the engine started. If the line was longer, you'd then be hampered by trying to manoeuvre the boat whilst trying to avoid the line to stop it getting tangled round the prop. The best that could be hoped was the boat could be heading back to the casualty with some sort of rescue plan at the same time as the casualty gets to the lifebouy. Big if. Then, how do you get a hypothermic person, even a slim light woman rather than a stout bloke up the sides of the boat and past the guardrails by yourself?

I've had exactly this problem years ago when my father fell out of the dinghy at night alongside the boat. Even though there was a step set in the transom (this being a Virgo Voyager) and the water was still, and a calm quiet night at anchor, it took me about 10 minutes just to get him back on board. We had a baltic bouy, but it wasn't used or relevant.

You see what I'm driving at? To my mind, these things provide the illusion of security, rather than a functioning rescue system, and I still haven't found any published web data which "proves" how useful of effective they are apart from the usual marketing hysteria. I'd still be interested in seeing some.
 
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