Ball-Head Toilet

[DennisF]

My Vivacity 650 is still fitted with the original sea toilet, a Ball-Hed which uses one single (rather large) hole for both flushing waste out and fresh water in. It appears fine, but the following image (from an Hurley website) suggests that if the simple flap valve fails the results can be rather bad:

http://www.hurleyownersassociation.co.uk/images/ballhedtoilet_lge.jpg

The Vivacity 650 owners site isn't very active at present, but opinion is split between leaving alone or ripping it out, sealing the hole and fitting a chemical toilet. No room for a Jabsco with holding tank. What do the panel think?

Dennis

 

[VicS]

My Vivacity 650 is still fitted with the original sea toilet, a Ball-Hed which uses one single (rather large) hole for both flushing waste out and fresh water in. It appears fine, but the following image (from an Hurley website) suggests that if the simple flap valve fails the results can be rather bad:

The Vivacity 650 owners site isn't very active at present, but opinion is split between leaving alone or ripping it out, sealing the hole and fitting a chemical toilet. No room for a Jabsco with holding tank. What do the panel think?

Dennis

(Post your pictures using the "Insert Image" icon

)
Or perhaps not on second thoughts

Just ripped mine out..... because the diaphragm has gone hard. Next job as soon as the weather is a bit warmer is to repair the hole.

Likewise no room for Jabsco! Porta Potti possibly, but initially I'll press the old Elsan mini toilet from our early camping days back into service I think. (Square bucket with a seat and cover and a tight fitting inner lid)

The flap valve is weakness but not actaully heard any other reports like yours. The seal around the lid should stop any flooding , but that's gone on mine too........ Flap valve is fine!

I have seen one report PBO many years ago of the whole base fracturing. Must have been someone very heavy using it in rough sea I should think.

If going for a Porta Potti type also look at the Fiamma Bipot. http://www.outdoorbits.com/fiamma-bipot-30-small-p-1132.html

 

[alahol2]

We sailed with one for 3 or 4 years in a Vivacity 20. It never gave any problems so we didn't think about replacing it. I was always a bit nervous of having a big hole with only plastic keeping the water out. As long as the rim of the pan is a couple of inches above the normal waterline I don't see how it would sink the boat even if the flap valve disintegrated.

 

[SHUG]

Ye Gods!!!!! I hope I am not on the loo when you tack!!! EEEEEEK!!!!!!

 

[alahol2]

Ye Gods!!!!! I hope I am not on the loo when you tack!!! EEEEEEK!!!!!!

I suppose I should have said above the heeled waterline. Ours was fore and aft on the centreline so tacking and heeling made no difference.

 

[mezereon]

I wasn't left with any choice as my survey recommended removal and the insurance would have been invalid if I'd ignored it. Removing the base was a pig of a job and very messy. it took weeks to clear-up the fibreglass dust (wear a respirator).
A toilet with a single moving part seems like a good idea, but an open hole to the sea with no sea-cock is a bit worrying.
I managed to easily fit a small jabsco (no holding tank) in the same space.

Mark

 

[jwilson]

We sailed with one for 3 or 4 years in a Vivacity 20. It never gave any problems so we didn't think about replacing it. I was always a bit nervous of having a big hole with only plastic keeping the water out. As long as the rim of the pan is a couple of inches above the normal waterline I don't see how it would sink the boat even if the flap valve disintegrated.

Same here: one on the first little cruiser I had, never liked it, though it never caused any problems.

 

[mezereon]

Just looked at your photos and realised what people mean by the "flap valve". Mine didnt have one and no evidence of one ever being fitted. The only seal was the diaphragm. If you lifted the lid you could clearly see the sea under the boat. no wonder the surveyor was worried...

 

[prv]

As long as the rim of the pan is a couple of inches above the normal waterline I don't see how it would sink the boat even if the flap valve disintegrated.

Someone standing on the bow? That changes my trim by more than a couple of inches - it's my immediate-action on grounding - and my boat is more than 20 feet.

Pete

 

[Giblets]

Have got one of these beauties on my little Leisure 17. As she was in the water over the weekend I actually got round to carrying out an operational test (not a functional test I hasten to add) and was quite amazed at the simplicity of the device. The flap lever was originally seized in the shut position but a liberal dose of PTFE spray soon freed that off. With the flap open the water comes up to 30mm below the underside of the rim of the pan with boat in normal trim. The flap valve also seals off tight. The ball is in fair condition and seems to work OK and the lid seal is good.

From VicS's pics (thanks Vic) I didn't realise that the base unit was only plastic so I think I will also be removing said beast in the not too distant future. Vic, will you be glassing both sides of the hole to seal it off or using it for some other purpose?

 

[VicS]

Have got one of these beauties on my little Leisure 17. As she was in the water over the weekend I actually got round to carrying out an operational test (not a functional test I hasten to add) and was quite amazed at the simplicity of the device. The flap lever was originally seized in the shut position but a liberal dose of PTFE spray soon freed that off. With the flap open the water comes up to 30mm below the underside of the rim of the pan with boat in normal trim. The flap valve also seals off tight. The ball is in fair condition and seems to work OK and the lid seal is good.

From VicS's pics (thanks Vic) I didn't realise that the base unit was only plastic so I think I will also be removing said beast in the not too distant future. Vic, will you be glassing both sides of the hole to seal it off or using it for some other purpose?

I will be doing a good permanent repair. I'm not going to attempt working from the outside. I'll do it all from the inside.

I'll fix some thin aluminium and some polythene over the hole outside to give a decent finish with minimum sanding back. I'll lay in glass circles to fill the hole and then glass over the whole lot. I have cleaned off all the paint around it now and can make the repair a foot or more square on the inside if needed.
I did think of chamfering off the GRP around the hole but too difficult working in the space esp all kitted out in coverall, gloves, mask and goggles not to mention the mess it will make.

I'll almost ceratinly use epoxy . Two reasons for that. A stronger bond to the hull and no need to gel coat the outside.

But its a job I wish I had not started. Chopping out that wooden block seemed to take forever...

 

[Giblets]

I will be doing a good permanent repair. I'm not going to attempt working from the outside. I'll do it all from the inside.

I'll fix some thin aluminium and some polythene over the hole outside to give a decent finish with minimum sanding back. I'll lay in glass circles to fill the hole and then glass over the whole lot. I have cleaned off all the paint around it now and can make the repair a foot or more square on the inside if needed.
I did think of chamfering off the GRP around the hole but too difficult working in the space esp all kitted out in coverall, gloves, mask and goggles not to mention the mess it will make.

I'll almost ceratinly use epoxy . Two reasons for that. A stronger bond to the hull and no need to gel coat the outside.

But its a job I wish I had not started. Chopping out that wooden block seemed to take forever...

Thanks for the info, Vic. Stage pics of the hole filling would be good.

If you feel at at a loose end when you have finished you are more than welcome to have a go at mine!

 

[VicS]

Thanks for the info, Vic. Stage pics of the hole filling would be good.

If you feel at at a loose end when you have finished you are more than welcome to have a go at mine!

I will try to remember to take the camera with me!
Won't be doing it until the weather warms up a bit.

 

[V1701]

I posted a thread recently that might help you to decide whether to go for a Porta Potti, see here. The Thetford PP 335 with hold-down kit would suit you, it's exactly what I'm replacing my sea toilet with and fits my Vega's tiny heads compartment perfectly...

 

[DennisF]

Thanks for all the comments. I suspect it will have to go at some stage, but as all seems to be working at present I may put it off for a year to save a bit of cash......

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

[Seajet]

DennisF,

I'd strongly recommend removing the loo, sealing the hole with a lot of fibreglass, and installing a chemical porta-potti.

If looking at chemical loos ( and the notion that they smell is long outdated ) , keep headroom above the loo in mind, and top tip, buy one from a caravan shop, not a chandlery at 3 times the price !

 

[NessWD]

I've just ripped one out of my Vivacity 20. The flap was completely ceased and the handle broke off. I unbolted it, however it was terrible to remove as the fixing plate was glassed into the hull. In the end a grinder was used to cut the base shank in pieces (thick plastic) and base plate cut out and re-glassed. Best thing I ever did. Same goes for the sink with no seacock - that's gone too now. Both sides have been glassed. Started outside and then once hard completed inside - good as new.

 

[jneale]

i put one of these in my first (home built trimaran - Susumi) . No problems with it at all. It was in the main cabin - next to the cooker etc. My younger son (age 3 or 4) was always worried about falling through and had to hang onto the side of the sink!.
Took a friend and his daughter sailing and she pee'd onto the top of the closed lid - How do you empty that ?

 

[ghostlymoron]

"I didn't realise that the base unit was only plastic so I think I will also be removing said beast in the not too distant future. Vic, will you be glassing both sides of the hole to seal it off or using it for some other purpose?"
I once had a Leisure 17 and someone gave me a Ballhed toilet for it - I never fitted it, I just didn't like the idea of cutting a 4" dia hole in the hull.

 

[Rustyknight]

When we bought our Jaguar 25 it came with one of these toilets. It actually served us quite well for a number of years, but the flap valve eventually started to give out, meaning that there was always varying amounts of water in the bowl. At the same time, the base of the pedastal started to show stress cracks in the plastic around the four bolt holes. It wasn't long before it was removed, and the hole glassed over. Happy to say there was enough room to replace it with a Jabsco/ PAR- Brydon