Baia Azzura 62 Verses AB 68

[SageMaster]

Hi All,

I'm travelling to Europe later this year to look at a the following Yacht models AB 68 and Baia 63. I'm looking to ship a similar vessel to Australia to explore our excellent cruising grounds and will be based in Queensland. from what I can gather both models are capable of 50 mph+. The AB models are kevlar build if I'm not mistaken.

What is your experience with he following;

1. How do these models compare in build quality, finish, seaworthiness and live aboard capacity?
2. How do Surface Drives and Jets drives compare to each other in regard to maintenance etc of these models?
3. What sort of mileage do the engines get in these boats?
4. How does kevlar stack up against fibreglass hulls over time?
5. Any advice/contacts in shipping yachts to Australia?

Thank you for your input and advice in advance. Safe boating all.

AB 68
Baia 63

 

[Portofino]

i have seen a few running , in the yard and obviously in the marina .
From what I can tell the AB s are arrow hulled boats ..long and thin .You notice it when berthed next to eq Pershings ,Baia , Itama etc .
They don’t quite look as well put together as the others .So the Baia wins in volume .You can detect this point from your armchair looking at the pics esp inside .
The AB Kawema jests …..need a big ( read expensive) service bearings, seals , hydraulics etc every now and again I heard every two years .Arnesons are pretty less maintenance hungry needing maybe fresh hydraulic seals .I have a mate with one and occasionally assisted him in the yard change his ram reads insitu .If you are 1/2 handy with the right massive spanner’s ….and Allen head tools to exact the caps you can do the seals + loadsa H fluid to bleed them then it’s not too bad .Professionals remove them take them back to unit and do them on a bench then return and refit them .Obviously this costs .Bit like servicing your VP outdrives there’s ways and other ways .

I think the hulls on the jet drive boats have a shallower deadrise .
The advantage of jets is they can stop in a short distance and are better in shallow draft waters Eg in a lagoon near a beach etc .
I am not familiar with your intended cruising ground so this feature alone might clinch it ?
I understand they both have bits of Kevlar in the hulls so they can be light ( more speed ) and strong enough to have a thinner overall lay up but bit you see outside are GRP skins . Aside its gonna be your insurance Co funding any major structural damage anyhow so this kevlar thing is really a none issue from an ownership pov .

3 - Those big MAN ( or MTU ) V 12 s will gobble something like 250L - hr each at under 2000 rpm .
You don’t want to go near WOT as the consumption rockets to well over 300 L / hr it’s not linear shoots up between 2000 and the 2300 or what ever ..How ever because of the say 40 knot cruise ( sea state permitted ) the NM / gallon or litre numbers are lower than standard props / shafts with the same motors .
When you sea trial one check out the cruise rpm and load on the motors .Ideally under 2000 rpm and about 80 % load .
The 80;% load number is beyond this thread but plenty of info out there .Basically they last longer .

If a hull and MAN configuration needs 2200 rpm to move it achieve its brochure 40 knot cruise then to me that would be a no no .If at 80;% load it’s at 32 - 34 knots then to me it’s underpowered.Hence think about a bigger engine version .
Or thats it a sexy roaster tail with that cruising speed .For eg a new shaft drive Itama 62 on MAN 1400 v12 I have helmed and seen 42 knots at WOT .Dailed back to 80:% load about 35/36 knots .This is it’s cruise .That’s what you are buying not the headline 42 knots .Brochure actually conservatively states 40 + knots btw .


Speed - You just get there sooner and switch off ..l.ie lower than do average hrs .
If you are doing a load of long distance passages then they come into there own . You might want to sit down when you read the service Histories the maintenance bills .

I think when you step aboard a Baia it will be immediately apparent quality and volume wise it’s a few steps up from the eq AB .
Dont get me wrong if space at the dock in terms of beam is a factor then it’s the AB .
I would line up a Pershing viewing too ….but again study the engine specs and hunt down the largest version .

What actually put us off emphasis on the “ US” read that as wife was the cherry wood high gloss finishes .She did not like spending her time for ever cleaning finger marks and smears off .Silly I know but hey how .Classic Itama are a white laminate interior which is low maintenance does not show smears etc or fade / go milky etc .Also they are wood floored - teak and holly = no carpet to get grubby .We boat with a little dog .
The compromise is no hard top they are opens .That works in the Med summer for us and we have a house in Antibes anyhow to run to if needs be .But i can see for others and understand a HT is mandatory.

I did T up a look at the Surface drive Itama 46 it was in Greece and in the middle of there financal melt down …..you know street riots and bank staff shootings , runs on banks etc .……so was not entirely comfortable wiring money to a Greek bank ,stepping off a plane and taking a taxi to downtown Athens .

Yes kinda got caught up with the sexy roaster tail thing .Saw the service history and realised coming from VP outdrives I would jumping from a small frying pan into far larger fire .Also PYB on here advised me they only added an extra 4 knots on std 46 anyhow .So at the time a lot of risk for more maintenance hassle and little gain .

As said we did go through the brands you equire .Every one’s needs and wants are different and you have to back fit the boat into your usage pattern and local waters .There isn’t a wrong answer just the best fit .Actually went to a inland storage hanger once near St Tropez which housed 2 Itama , 3 Pershings , 2 Baia + a few others …..so had a good look at them all with a broker and a dealer who owned the hanger ,It had helicopters + Harley’s as well .Big boys toy shop . Only one pair of ladders we had to keep moving boat to boat .

All the big yacht movement Co ship boats from Genoa worldwide.
Broker Will know lads / crew to move it to the ship .You can’t pin down the exact date that’s the issue as the ship does a round Robin of all the Med ports where the big boaty areas are .Delays creep in .

 

[SageMaster]

i have seen a few running , in the yard and obviously in the marina .
From what I can tell the AB s are arrow hulled boats ..long and thin .You notice it when berthed next to eq Pershings ,Baia , Itama etc .
They don’t quite look as well put together as the others .So the Baia wins in volume .You can detect this point from your armchair looking at the pics esp inside .
The AB Kawema jests …..need a big ( read expensive) service bearings, seals , hydraulics etc every now and again I heard every two years .Arnesons are pretty less maintenance hungry needing maybe fresh hydraulic seals .I have a mate with one and occasionally assisted him in the yard change his ram reads insitu .If you are 1/2 handy with the right massive spanner’s ….and Allen head tools to exact the caps you can do the seals + loadsa H fluid to bleed them then it’s not too bad .Professionals remove them take them back to unit and do them on a bench then return and refit them .Obviously this costs .Bit like servicing your VP outdrives there’s ways and other ways .

I think the hulls on the jet drive boats have a shallower deadrise .
The advantage of jets is they can stop in a short distance and are better in shallow draft waters Eg in a lagoon near a beach etc .
I am not familiar with your intended cruising ground so this feature alone might clinch it ?
I understand they both have bits of Kevlar in the hulls so they can be light ( more speed ) and strong enough to have a thinner overall lay up but bit you see outside are GRP skins . Aside its gonna be your insurance Co funding any major structural damage anyhow so this kevlar thing is really a none issue from an ownership pov .

3 - Those big MAN ( or MTU ) V 12 s will gobble something like 250L - hr each at under 2000 rpm .
You don’t want to go near WOT as the consumption rockets to well over 300 L / hr it’s not linear shoots up between 2000 and the 2300 or what ever ..How ever because of the say 40 knot cruise ( sea state permitted ) the NM / gallon or litre numbers are lower than standard props / shafts with the same motors .
When you sea trial one check out the cruise rpm and load on the motors .Ideally under 2000 rpm and about 80 % load .
The 80;% load number is beyond this thread but plenty of info out there .Basically they last longer .

If a hull and MAN configuration needs 2200 rpm to move it achieve its brochure 40 knot cruise then to me that would be a no no .If at 80;% load it’s at 32 - 34 knots then to me it’s underpowered.Hence think about a bigger engine version .
Or thats it a sexy roaster tail with that cruising speed .For eg a new shaft drive Itama 62 on MAN 1400 v12 I have helmed and seen 42 knots at WOT .Dailed back to 80:% load about 35/36 knots .This is it’s cruise .That’s what you are buying not the headline 42 knots .Brochure actually conservatively states 40 + knots btw .


Speed - You just get there sooner and switch off ..l.ie lower than do average hrs .
If you are doing a load of long distance passages then they come into there own . You might want to sit down when you read the service Histories the maintenance bills .

I think when you step aboard a Baia it will be immediately apparent quality and volume wise it’s a few steps up from the eq AB .
Dont get me wrong if space at the dock in terms of beam is a factor then it’s the AB .
I would line up a Pershing viewing too ….but again study the engine specs and hunt down the largest version .

What actually put us off emphasis on the “ US” read that as wife was the cherry wood high gloss finishes .She did not like spending her time for ever cleaning finger marks and smears off .Silly I know but hey how .Classic Itama are a white laminate interior which is low maintenance does not show smears etc or fade / go milky etc .Also they are wood floored - teak and holly = no carpet to get grubby .We boat with a little dog .
The compromise is no hard top they are opens .That works in the Med summer for us and we have a house in Antibes anyhow to run to if needs be .But i can see for others and understand a HT is mandatory.

I did T up a look at the Surface drive Itama 46 it was in Greece and in the middle of there financal melt down …..you know street riots and bank staff shootings , runs on banks etc .……so was not entirely comfortable wiring money to a Greek bank ,stepping off a plane and taking a taxi to downtown Athens .

Yes kinda got caught up with the sexy roaster tail thing .Saw the service history and realised coming from VP outdrives I would jumping from a small frying pan into far larger fire .Also PYB on here advised me they only added an extra 4 knots on std 46 anyhow .So at the time a lot of risk for more maintenance hassle and little gain .

As said we did go through the brands you equire .Every one’s needs and wants are different and you have to back fit the boat into your usage pattern and local waters .There isn’t a wrong answer just the best fit .Actually went to a inland storage hanger once near St Tropez which housed 2 Itama , 3 Pershings , 2 Baia + a few others …..so had a good look at them all with a broker and a dealer who owned the hanger ,It had helicopters + Harley’s as well .Big boys toy shop . Only one pair of ladders we had to keep moving boat to boat .

All the big yacht movement Co ship boats from Genoa worldwide.
Broker Will know lads / crew to move it to the ship .You can’t pin down the exact date that’s the issue as the ship does a round Robin of all the Med ports where the big boaty areas are .Delays creep in .

Again you deliver Portofino, when I finally get my vessel we will have to meet up in the med or where ever your based. My shout!!!. Again really appreciate your time and knowledge. I thought the deadrise was shallower on the AB68 it seams to ride higher on the water due to the jets but very floaty and loose, but idea is to explore many of our reef areas and inland waterways but these vessels are nothing like a keel on a sail boat. The trip to the hanger would have been so handy to see all the vessels at once.
It really sounds like you did your homework for your vessel the Italma and its paid off for the whole family.
Yes I've also spotted the Pershings and agree, especially the 62 what a beast the updated grey looks. Seams to have more maneuverability than the Baia 63 and higher quality finishing than the AB68.
Will keep researching. thank you again all the above is extremely valuable

 

[Portofino]

We are in Loano about 1hr W of Genoa ( in a fast boat ) It’s actually a good place for your boat to wait for the ship via Genoa back to Oz .
Would be a pleasure to meet up certainly.

Yes I did my home work spoke to a lot of brokers and dealers .The hanger trip was great because of the ability to step back and forth between them all and fire away questions .When we had done each hull had numbers written in the dust on the side as the dealer kept ( pidgeon Eng ) writing numbers with his finger on the sides
eg one with twin MAN 800 v8 s “ how much is the next service “. dealer licks finger and writes €5000 on the hull .
Time to sit in the cockpits and work out how you would use the space etc .
Obviously study the hull forms and running gear etc . The guys nodded towards the Itama for the smoothest ride .
But the others Pershing + Baia are faster and have the sexy roaster tail + hard tops .But high gloss wood interiors and cream carpets .
As I said no wrong answer .Hopefully when stepping on board and go a ride you will “feel it “ one will come to you .
Could be something like the sound of the engines or shape of the sunroof in the HT , the view from the helm seat et etc which swings it .
.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Baia 63 Azzurra might have been the best boat that ever came out of Naples for sea-keeping qualities.
That boat is a beast, if you want Deep-Vee with surface drives. She is on set up the best among the best, and runs better to a Magnum.
Only for it to be build inferior, due for it being more price conscious. Baia sold 47 units 63 in a production run which last fifteen years (if you count the non existant 2010-15).
The 63 Azzurra hull was born as a B55 (1995) for it to become a year later the 59 Exuma and then in 1999 becoming the 63 Azzurra with totally different layout and stern.

AB Yachts 68 was a more yacht sport yacht machine (with patio door) and rather custom, quite successful for AB, and I think it is the most AB ever sold (they did close or over thirty hulls of it).

Brand new the AB Yacht was much more expensive then the Baia, like half to one million Euros more.

They are different boats, if you want a HT with an open powerboat experience then Baia is your choice.
The AB Yachts is a more yacht feel with a higher freeboard and fully enclosed patio door main deck pilot house (beside a couple custom exceptions).
AB Yachts is also a bigger yacht.... If I want the AB I would not look at the Baia IMO and if I want the later I would not look at the former.
They have only one common denominator and that is speed. The rest is different....

 

[SageMaster]

You're very fortunate to be in a part of the world where you're exposed to such a range. We really are naive in Aus in regards to performance seaworthy vessels. But its an excuse to do a trip of Europe. The Baia 63 does have a go fast solid ride feel about it similar shape to Cigerette and Italma. I feel the Pershing 62 is heavier than the other two and did not like the layout as much but seeing one in the flash could be different.

1. Do you know the deadrise numbers of the AB 68 Verses the Baia 63?
2. How does boat trim compare to a surface drive and jet system?
3. Does the AB 68 have trim tabs?
4. Would Baia 63 and AB 68 fuel consumption be similar to 250lt/h at cruise as mentioned earlier?
5. Would fuel consumption be much different between AB58 and AB68?

I'm going to enjoy testing these out.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

The Azzurra 63 is 23 degrees if I remember well, AB Yachts 68 is between 19 to 21 degrees aft. Off my mind if I remeber well the 68 was 19.

With the Baia you can cruise at about 9 liters per nm at 35 knots, that impressive fuel consumption for thirty tons. Tried and tested number with twin Man 1300hp engines.
Being heavier and with bigger engines the AB68 and jet propulsion being known for being thirstier to surface drives you are looking at about 13 liters per NM at about thirty knots cruise here.
No first hand experience, this is what I was told. Which is still not bad considering the AB68 is heavier and bigger to the Baia 63 Azzurra, with a real world like to like being the Baia 70 Italia.

 

[SageMaster]

The Azzurra 63 is 23 degrees if I remember well, AB Yachts 68 is between 19 to 21 degrees aft. Off my mind if I remeber well the 68 was 19.

With the Baia you can cruise at about 9 liters per nm at 35 knots, that impressive fuel consumption for thirty tons. Tried and tested number with twin Man 1300hp engines.
Being heavier and with bigger engines the AB68 and jet propulsion being known for being thirstier to surface drives you are looking at about 13 liters per NM at about thirty knots cruise here.
No first hand experience, this is what I was told. Which is still not bad considering the AB68 is heavier and bigger to the Baia 63 Azzurra, with a real world like to like being the Baia 70 Italia.

Have you had experience with the Mangusta 70 - 80 foot models 1996 - 04 models. How do they compare with the AB 70 - 80 footers of same vintage.

 

[SageMaster]

We are in Loano about 1hr W of Genoa ( in a fast boat ) It’s actually a good place for your boat to wait for the ship via Genoa back to Oz .
Would be a pleasure to meet up certainly.

Yes I did my home work spoke to a lot of brokers and dealers .The hanger trip was great because of the ability to step back and forth between them all and fire away questions .When we had done each hull had numbers written in the dust on the side as the dealer kept ( pidgeon Eng ) writing numbers with his finger on the sides
eg one with twin MAN 800 v8 s “ how much is the next service “. dealer licks finger and writes €5000 on the hull .
Time to sit in the cockpits and work out how you would use the space etc .
Obviously study the hull forms and running gear etc . The guys nodded towards the Itama for the smoothest ride .
But the others Pershing + Baia are faster and have the sexy roaster tail + hard tops .But high gloss wood interiors and cream carpets .
As I said no wrong answer .Hopefully when stepping on board and go a ride you will “feel it “ one will come to you .
Could be something like the sound of the engines or shape of the sunroof in the HT , the view from the helm seat et etc which swings it .
.

Hi Port, Have you had experience with the Mangusta 70 - 80 foot models 1996 - 04 models. How do they compare with the AB 70 - 80 footers of same vintage.

 

[Portofino]

Hi Port, Have you had experience with the Mangusta 70 - 80 foot models 1996 - 04 models. How do they compare with the AB 70 - 80 footers of same vintage.

I have no direct experience of either .But witnessed plenty at sea and anchor to make a reasonable input .
Seen loads at the dock around the dock and in the yards .
The AB s are the better wave bashers , better seakeeping in rough due to the deadrise ,
Managusta of that time are good especially in the open air Med environment entertainment of friends , better deck lay out .But not as fast or as good wave bashers .

I wouldn’t hang your hat on either because at 70/80 ft they both being performance hulls will go well , the AB s are faster .

Buy on service history and condition, and hrs in terms whats due on the engines and machinery.A 40 to 80 K bill ( choose your £/€/$ ) is not funny a few months post purchase unless it’s a steal price wise a transparent up front sale “ it needs this “ price reflects .
As I said earlier you need ( and significant partner ) to set foot on your prospects and go from there eliminating them , then homing in on the “ one “ .
As said earlier AB tend to narrow hulled .Managusta are fuller in beam and thus more floor space to live on but slower .
I rarely see them going over 30 knots .
Overtaken plenty

 

[SageMaster]

Thanks again, great feedback. we have little to compare in Australia so looking forward to a research trip of gunnel kicking the end of year.

 

[SageMaster]

I have no direct experience of either .But witnessed plenty at sea and anchor to make a reasonable input .
Seen loads at the dock around the dock and in the yards .
The AB s are the better wave bashers , better seakeeping in rough due to the deadrise ,
Managusta of that time are good especially in the open air Med environment entertainment of friends , better deck lay out .But not as fast or as good wave bashers .

I wouldn’t hang your hat on either because at 70/80 ft they both being performance hulls will go well , the AB s are faster .

Buy on service history and condition, and hrs in terms whats due on the engines and machinery.A 40 to 80 K bill ( choose your £/€/$ ) is not funny a few months post purchase unless it’s a steal price wise a transparent up front sale “ it needs this “ price reflects .
As I said earlier you need ( and significant partner ) to set foot on your prospects and go from there eliminating them , then homing in on the “ one “ .
As said earlier AB tend to narrow hulled .Managusta are fuller in beam and thus more floor space to live on but slower .
I rarely see them going over 30 knots .
Overtaken plenty

Yes AB 78 looks to tick boxes for speed and seakeeping but its layout not the best as you mentioned. Do you think this is accurate of a Mangusta 80 milage at cruising.
Mangusta 130 ltr/hr video

 

[MapisM]

As a ballpark number, it sounds just about right.
But I have a funny feeling that you're reading the 130 as liters, while it's actually referred to gallons.
The video doesn't specify if US or imperial - I suppose it's the former, but we're talking of either 500 or 600 liters anyway, pick your poison.

Regardless, if you're concerned about fuel burn, beware:
in all the boats you mentioned, the fuel burn scale goes from awful to outrageous.
Which is irrelevant anyhow, since they are clearly targeted to people with more money than sense.
The fact that you can now buy some of them for a song doesn't change the fact that they are hugely expensive to maintain and run.
In turn, that's one of the reasons why used ones must be sold for a song in order to find a buyer...

 

[SageMaster]

As a ballpark number, it sounds just about right.
But I have a funny feeling that you're reading the 130 as liters, while it's actually referred to gallons.
The video doesn't specify if US or imperial - I suppose it's the former, but we're talking of either 500 or 600 liters anyway, pick your poison.

Regardless, if you're concerned about fuel burn, beware:
in all the boats you mentioned, the fuel burn scale goes from awful to outrageous.
Which is irrelevant anyhow, since they are clearly targeted to people with more money than sense.
The fact that you can now buy some of them for a song doesn't change the fact that they are hugely expensive to maintain and run.
In turn, that's one of the reasons why used ones must be sold for a song in order to find a buyer...

Point Taken got it. If you're really serious about these boats milage isn't a concern.

 

[Portofino]

New back in the day 95-2005 era fuel was relatively cheap in the overall cost of purchasing and cost of running ratio .
Say 0.6 to 0.8 € per litre for a €1.5 - €2 million boat .A summer toy for Med inter island hopping often an accessory to a villa .
Hence to large cockpit open areas .Hard tops came later as the concept evolved.
As said there are hundreds of theses frequenting the med social hubs .A charter favourite for none boaty folks who want to party .Now fuels moved to shy under €2 litre and due to age theses things dropped down price wise to a few hundred thousand euros certainly easily within your budget that buy in running ratio skewed if you intend to run them at the design speeds .
Yes shoving a 8O ftr is gonna burn 600-800 L / hrs at 35 knots .So burning €1000 to €1500 per hour .

I typically have done ( pre covid ) 60-80 hrs a season but burning 180L / hr running @ 28-30;knots .This speed suits me btw .100 miles in 3 hrs and we are ready anchor + swim before going into a new to us marina in the med .

So that Gusta guy if he was to follow me around one season ……would go through € 60000 to €100000 in fuel alone .Maybe €40000 in berthing and another est min €20000 in motor and stern gear servicing .So the very worst ( assuming nothing major is broken or needs replacing like teak or cushions or Bimini ) a €150000 a year is what in terms of buy in running ratio ?

1/2 or a 1/3rd of the boats value. Thats why they look and are incredible good value and why there are so many for sale and take so long to sell. Not quite “ giving them away “ but mighty relieved previous owners if they can hook a buyer to offload them .

If it’s speed and sea keeping you are after you might be better looking @ between 45 - 60 ft , the smaller the better in terms of funding it running fast ish .
Plenty of AB 55 s , Pershings , Itama ( no HT s ) Baia , Sunseeker Preditor 55 , 12 L diesels + Arnesons or slower shaft drive older Preds that cruise under 30 knots ,
Seakeeping look at the deadrise .Speed look at the Hp buy the biggest engines in the smallest hull , not the other way round .

Personally I find inline 6 s @ 12 Litre the sweet spot when mixing , running / service, fuel , berthing , and speed into the equation for our boat usage pattern .

 

[SageMaster]

New back in the day 95-2005 era fuel was relatively cheap in the overall cost of purchasing and cost of running ratio .
Say 0.6 to 0.8 € per litre for a €1.5 - €2 million boat .A summer toy for Med inter island hopping often an accessory to a villa .
Hence to large cockpit open areas .Hard tops came later as the concept evolved.
As said there are hundreds of theses frequenting the med social hubs .A charter favourite for none boaty folks who want to party .Now fuels moved to shy under €2 litre and due to age theses things dropped down price wise to a few hundred thousand euros certainly easily within your budget that buy in running ratio skewed if you intend to run them at the design speeds .
Yes shoving a 8O ftr is gonna burn 600-800 L / hrs at 35 knots .So burning €1000 to €1500 per hour .

I typically have done ( pre covid ) 60-80 hrs a season but burning 180L / hr running @ 28-30;knots .This speed suits me btw .100 miles in 3 hrs and we are ready anchor + swim before going into a new to us marina in the med .

So that Gusta guy if he was to follow me around one season ……would go through € 60000 to €100000 in fuel alone .Maybe €40000 in berthing and another est min €20000 in motor and stern gear servicing .So the very worst ( assuming nothing major is broken or needs replacing like teak or cushions or Bimini ) a €150000 a year is what in terms of buy in running ratio ?

1/2 or a 1/3rd of the boats value. Thats why they look and are incredible good value and why there are so many for sale and take so long to sell. Not quite “ giving them away “ but mighty relieved previous owners if they can hook a buyer to offload them .

If it’s speed and sea keeping you are after you might be better looking @ between 45 - 60 ft , the smaller the better in terms of funding it running fast ish .
Plenty of AB 55 s , Pershings , Itama ( no HT s ) Baia , Sunseeker Preditor 55 , 12 L diesels + Arnesons or slower shaft drive older Preds that cruise under 30 knots ,
Seakeeping look at the deadrise .Speed look at the Hp buy the biggest engines in the smallest hull , not the other way round .

Personally I find inline 6 s @ 12 Litre the sweet spot when mixing , running / service, fuel , berthing , and speed into the equation for our boat usage pattern .

Awesome advice Port thanks again. Very easy to get carried away with big boats at cheap prices. One has no idea running cost until they become the owner. Will look at the smaller versions.

 

[MapisM]

Very easy to get carried away with big boats at cheap prices.

Only if you assume that the larger the better, which is a mistake. A very widespread one, but still a mistake.
You want the smaller boat that is large enough for your needs, not the larger one that you can afford.

 

[roa312]

The Mangusta 80 is a bit of a favorite (dream!) boat of mine and it must have been a very successful model since it was in production for quite a long time (I think 1994-2010?). If you do intend to always be cruising at 35-40 knots then for sure fuel burn is horrendous (relatively speaking) because for an 80 footer I believe the Mangusta is actually one of the more economical options. I think it's true that people who ordered these from new probably cared very little about fuel costs but people buying used at much depressed prices probably are forced to care!

The guy who uploaded the YouTube video mentions that at 10 knots his Mangusta fuel burn is c.50 liters/hr (2x5 gallons) so in back-of-the-envelope conversion to Portofino's example below:

Portofino's example (Itama 42?)
29 knots
c.70 hours / c.2,000 nm
180 ltr/hour
12,600 liters fuel

Mangusta 80
10 knots
c.200 hours / c.2,000 nm (130 extra cruising hours, yay )
50 ltr/hour
10,000 liters fuel

I'm actually quite impressed about the 2k nm range/season! I personally travel way less but I'm in the Nordics and our cruising ground are probably not so far apart as in the Med. I know of a few people in 60+ feet Princess/Fairline's who burns less fuel per season compared to Portofino, so just highlighting that these figures are all very individual. The EUR 20k/year in annual servicing of engines/stern gear mentioned above sounds absolutely crazy to me but maybe that is just the Med premium (for sure the cost is much less where I live). High berthing fee's in the Med will also serve to depress prices further on larger boats but I don't know if you also have high berthing fees in Queensland?

Going back to the owner in the YouTube video, he mentions in the comments that he doesn't consider himself rich (again all relative I suppose ) and that he and his girlfriend lived on the boat for 5 years - after spending 2+ years looking for the right Mangusta 80. I think stories like that are going to be increasingly common among these very large (but aging) boats selling at depressed prices. However, that could also mean that some of these boats will be well looked after.

 

[Portofino]

The Mangusta 80 is a bit of a favorite (dream!) boat of mine and it must have been a very successful model since it was in production for quite a long time (I think 1994-2010?). If you do intend to always be cruising at 35-40 knots then for sure fuel burn is horrendous (relatively speaking) because for an 80 footer I believe the Mangusta is actually one of the more economical options. I think it's true that people who ordered these from new probably cared very little about fuel costs but people buying used at much depressed prices probably are forced to care!

The guy who uploaded the YouTube video mentions that at 10 knots his Mangusta fuel burn is c.50 liters/hr (2x5 gallons) so in back-of-the-envelope conversion to Portofino's example below:

Portofino's example (Itama 42?)
29 knots
c.70 hours / c.2,000 nm
180 ltr/hour
12,600 liters fuel

Mangusta 80
10 knots
c.200 hours / c.2,000 nm (130 extra cruising hours, yay )
50 ltr/hour
10,000 liters fuel

I'm actually quite impressed about the 2k nm range/season! I personally travel way less but I'm in the Nordics and our cruising ground are probably not so far apart as in the Med. I know of a few people in 60+ feet Princess/Fairline's who burns less fuel per season compared to Portofino, so just highlighting that these figures are all very individual. The EUR 20k/year in annual servicing of engines/stern gear mentioned above sounds absolutely crazy to me but maybe that is just the Med premium (for sure the cost is much less where I live). High berthing fee's in the Med will also serve to depress prices further on larger boats but I don't know if you also have high berthing fees in Queensland?

Going back to the owner in the YouTube video, he mentions in the comments that he doesn't consider himself rich (again all relative I suppose ) and that he and his girlfriend lived on the boat for 5 years - after spending 2+ years looking for the right Mangusta 80. I think stories like that are going to be increasingly common among these very large (but aging) boats selling at depressed prices. However, that could also mean that some of these boats will be well looked after.

Agree with semi change of use re live aboard as they drop down the depreciation food chain .…..only if somewhere cheap to berth so East Med .
That 50L / hr @ 10 knots does not sound right .
I do 36 in total with 1/2 the capacity and cylinders assuming the Gusta are on MAN V12s circa 22/24 L displacement.@9 knots .
Any further and the bow hump starts and that 18 L per side soon looks like 30 or 40 …..pushing a 14 m , 18 ton tub .

So that gusta arguably well under hull speed at 10 knots I reckon is burning nearer 80 L in total .

We have electronic fuel gauges as well as my infamous EGT s So I can see all this stuff .

Even slow planing or put another way getting the engines nicely spooled up say 1600 rpm they gobble 70/80 L hr but @22 / 24 knots which the boat does not like ….so it’s either 9 knots at 36 L/hr which we do btw .eg Genoa is approx 30 miles away and can be a relaxing sunbathing 3 hr jaunt or a 50 min blast @30/32 knots
so 3 x 36 or one 180 / 190 L burned .
If you want to do typically 100 miles we just can’t stand a 10 hr or so trip .Prefer a 3 hr .But realise others might ?

As far as running costs the V 12 s have double the number of consumables and a charge air cooler sitting on the V .This basically is labour and gasket part intensive with maintenance.Each gasket might be 10-50 euros a piece but there are a lot of single use items and the costs just go up .They say ( American forums ) its $10000 a side just to remove and flush the cooling system .
Your impellers are near £300 a piece for example.
I paid €4000 for the water pumps to be removed , rebuilt and put back .Parts with gaskets etc €800 a side I think in tax .
Obviously a once in ownership experience the motors are 20 y old but nether the less you are buying into these kinda bills .
There was nothing as such wrong with the water pumps , just age and seals do weep so it’s was good preventative maintenance.

You might get away stringing that out if money was an issue .
My exhausts were shagged when I bought it 2014 all transparent and I got a hefty price hair cut .Managed to bodge them along for a few more years until I bit the bullet and replaced them .Only Two not Four = £15000 all in , parts , Labour , tax + all the pipe work and gaskets rubbers etc etc Nothing on the itemised bill was that big it just all added up .

Thing is an astute buyer would be looking for a coolant service , a water pump job , enquiring when the exhausts s were last inspected or replaced . This is on top of a consumable annual oil change .
I think I buy 72 L of the black stuff .DIY with genuine parts filters I can squeeze a service in for about a grand for both .
A V 12 has double the number of filters = two banks .

Yes I did the maths even scouted cheaper berths around the Liguria for one of theses old girls .But the wife keeps telling me the three S s are identical no matter what size boat you run .Sun ,Sea and Sand .
Fortunately we have a land based holiday home in Antibes which like any bricks n mortor building is appreciating in valve .
Not that the plastic tub the Itama has depreciated in my tenure it’s actually like many others appreciated, was doing this pre covid btw .

New Bimini + seat cushions just fitted .A 80 ftr open bill for the same er - no thanks .

Then there’s your yard bill( s) the lift in / out the daily rate the AF even DIY never mind professionals……….Without an annual lift your fuel bill will rocket even more + latent anode depletion issues .So I stand by my ball park €20000 Pa maintenance only just to park it still on its berth ,

 

[Portofino]

The other thing is @ tankage if 6000 L. I just can’t see in a gusta 80 even a D speed ( low rpm aged engine issues aside ) how you could only visit the fuel dock once in season of “c 200 “ hrs ?

Out tankage is 2200 spread over three .Should be 1600but it was specced with a a extra long range tank .