Bahamian mooring - stop the twists?

[GHA]

Any cunning ideas how to stop the 2 rodes getting all twisted up when lying to 2 anchors Bahamian stylee? As the tides turn the boat often seems to spin always in the same direction.
2 thoughts so far, 3rd anchor perpendicular to the other 2 attached to the stern with a kellet or maybe move one of the other anchors to the stern, current here isn't too bad.

Any other cunning techniques?

Tia

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Any other cunning techniques? Tia

In the Bahamas I always keep the (mainly) rope rode for the second anchor in caving tackle bag (a heavy duty bag that fits perfectly in a bucket to hold it open). When you're lying to the main anchor, it only takes a couple of minutes to pass the bag over and under the main rode and take out all the twists.

 

[GHA]

In the Bahamas I always keep the (mainly) rope rode for the second anchor in caving tackle bag (a heavy duty bag that fits perfectly in a bucket to hold it open). When you're lying to the main anchor, it only takes a couple of minutes to pass the bag over and under the main rode and take out all the twists.

An option I suppose though not really if you're off the boat for a day or 2. The stern is gaining interest in the thought process, might give that a go an see what happens. Can't think of any other ways without sticking a 3rd hook down.

 

[smert]

http://www.frugal-mariner.com/Bahamian_Mooring.html

This site suggests cleating the aft anchor a few feet back from the bow

 

[prv]

The classic texts like the Pardeys' suggest incorporating a swivel into the arrangement, similar to a buoy mooring. Though they used to moor with an anchor at each end of their main bower chain and shackle the swivel to the middle of it; I'm not sure how you'd work it with two separate cables which each have a substantial length still on the boat.

If one cable is rope and most of it is out, maybe you could hitch it to the chain a few feet outboard of the bow roller, with the rest coiled and neatly lashed to one leg or the other. Then only one chain comes over the bow.

Or just moor fore and aft instead of swinging, depending on how strong the winds and currents are.

Pete

 

[jdc]

The classic texts like the Pardeys' suggest incorporating a swivel into the arrangement, similar to a buoy mooring. Though they used to moor with an anchor at each end of their main bower chain and shackle the swivel to the middle of it; I'm not sure how you'd work it with two separate cables which each have a substantial length still on the boat...

I think that this is the only sure-fire way. I have been considering the same issue as the OP and have reultantly come to the conclusion that I have to re-configure my kedge.

At present the bower is 60m chain spliced to another 50m of warp. I intend to leave it like this as it has been spliced so it goes through the windlass without problem. The kedge is 20m of rather heavier chain spliced to 60m of warp which does not run through the windlass. On my to-do but not urgent list is cutting the splice off the kedge and substititing a shackle and hard-eye. This would never pass through a windlass, but the current arrangement doesn't either. However the advantage would be that it could be split at the shackle.

So a future arrangement for a Bahamian moor would be to take the rope off the kedge and shackle the kedge's chain to the chain of the bower and then lower the join to the seabed. Setting the affair would be slightly harder as I'd need to attach a rope/marker buoy to the crown of the kedge so I could tow it to make the whole arrangement taut on the bottom. And I might have to recover it using the same rope and marker buoy.

It's a bit of a faff, which is why I've not done it yet, but probably worthwhile were I to leave the boat at anchor unattended for a week or two.

 

[prv]

So a future arrangement for a Bahamian moor would be to take the rope off the kedge and shackle the kedge's chain to the chain of the bower and then lower the join to the seabed.

Would you attach the 20m kedge chain to the end of the bower chain (near the rope splice), or part-way along it? It seems like this way you can't have any more than 20m on one leg of the moor. Maybe that's enough if you're intending the join to be well down near the bottom rather than about at the surface.

Setting the affair would be slightly harder as I'd need to attach a rope/marker buoy to the crown of the kedge so I could tow it to make the whole arrangement taut on the bottom.

For what it's worth, the Pardeys' classical approach was to anchor on the bower as normal, then drop back paying out chain until they reached the halfway point, where they would attach a line. Then they would continue to drop back, paying out chain and line, until the end of the chain came on deck and they shackled on the kedge. They would drop that over the side, and then pull themselves back to the midpoint of the chain using the line. Raising the midpoint of the chain back to the surface would take in enough length to set the kedge, they'd fit the swivel where the warp had been, and run a short length of chain from the swivel over the bow to the samson post. The swivel would sit roughly around the waterline.

Of course they were doing all this under sail and sculling-oar, so we with our engines shouldn't follow it unthinkingly.

Pete

 

[NormanS]

My boat is at present lying to two anchors in what is my understanding of a Bahamian Moor. One on 40 metres of chain, the other on 45m of nylon + 5m of heavier chain. Only the all-chain rode comes aboard. I have made up a metal disc with tubular upstand, which is in two halves, which bolts onto the chain. The disc is about the size and shape of an inverted saucer. A large bow shackle fits onto the tube and rests on the disc. The nylon rode is made fast to this shackle. The disc etc is lowered so that it is below the level of the keel. Thus, the boat can swing freely to the wind, but the two rodes do not get wound together.

To rig this, I dropped the first anchor upwind, veered 30 metres of chain, and went astern on it until I was perfectly sure. I then laid out the second anchor downwind, using the dinghy, keeping a boat length aboard. (Fortresses are easy in this respect). Having temporarily made it fast, I drove ahead against it, until I was absolutely sure. I then let out a further 10 or 12m of chain, rigged the saucer, and made the rope rode fast.

It is not good to have the chain/rope between the two anchors taut, because a wind a right angles will exert an unfair load on the anchors. What you are trying to do is to reduce the variation in the angle of pull on the anchors, and it also means that the system can have a huge scope, without a big swinging circle.

I do this every year, when I leave my boat unattended for about four weeks in the Outer Hebrides.

 

[prv]

My boat is at present lying to two anchors in what is my understanding of a Bahamian Moor. One on 40 metres of chain, the other on 45m of nylon + 5m of heavier chain. Only the all-chain rode comes aboard. I have made up a metal disc with tubular upstand, which is in two halves, which bolts onto the chain. The disc is about the size and shape of an inverted saucer. A large bow shackle fits onto the tube and rests on the disc. The nylon rode is made fast to this shackle. The disc etc is lowered so that it is below the level of the keel. Thus, the boat can swing freely to the wind, but the two rodes do not get wound together.

Sounds perfect. Presumably the nylon is the right length so that you don't have a coil of excess to stash somewhere? I think that was the sticking point for many of the above ideas.

Pete

 

[NormanS]

Sounds perfect. Presumably the nylon is the right length so that you don't have a coil of excess to stash somewhere? I think that was the sticking point for many of the above ideas.

Pete

Yes, the nylon is 45m, with a hard eye where it is shackled to its 5m of 11mm chain.

 

[jdc]

Would you attach the 20m kedge chain to the end of the bower chain (near the rope splice), or part-way along it? It seems like this way you can't have any more than 20m on one leg of the moor. Maybe that's enough if you're intending the join to be well down near the bottom rather than about at the surface...

Well I quite admit that I've not yet done this mod. to my set-up so it remains a thought experiment! However my intention is to join the 20m of kedge chain to about the same length of bower chain, so there's 40m between anchors, and the riser would then come from the mid-point. I think it would be undesirable if the riser were to rub past the 'lazy' anchor, so one would also have to keep this no longer than 20m.

But that's a total scope of 40m which is enough in many situations. As a possibly relevant data point, ground chains betwen mooring anchors are supposed to be at least the max depth at HW: 40m seems plenty compared to this!

 

[prv]

Well I quite admit that I've not yet done this mod. to my set-up so it remains a thought experiment!

Genuine question on my part, not intended as criticism. I've not done any of this stuff either, I'm generally happy to simply dig in my oversized Spade, pull back on it with full throttle for ten seconds or so to ensure it's set, and then ensure that the warp isn't going to chafe where it comes over the bow (I had to revert to a mostly-rope rode after realising that all-chain was ruining the trim of my relatively fine-bowed boat). My concerns when leaving the boat generally relate to swinging into an obstruction (having anchored in too tight a place), being swung into or dragged down on by another boat, or having the cable somehow part. I have great confidence in the anchor itself staying put even in a turning tide, so I've never felt an urge to set up a more complex moor.

Pete

 

[ghostlymoron]

This is how the Shards do it. Seems a little complicated but addresses the OPs concerns. I would add that I've never tried it.



https://youtu.be/DbhUMQjaySg

 

[NormanS]

This is how the Shards do it. Seems a little complicated but addresses the OPs concerns. I would add that I've never tried it.



https://youtu.be/DbhUMQjaySg

Thanks for the link. It's very similar to my set-up, but I have to say that I didn't like the method of attachment of the rope rode to the chain. A shackle which will go into a mid link of my 10mm chain would be so small that it would present a very small bearing area for the eye on the rope.

 

[jdc]

...A shackle which will go into a mid link of my 10mm chain would be so small that it would present a very small bearing area for the eye on the rope...

I prefer to use one of these:

 

[prv]

Thanks for the link. It's very similar to my set-up, but I have to say that I didn't like the method of attachment of the rope rode to the chain. A shackle which will go into a mid link of my 10mm chain would be so small that it would present a very small bearing area for the eye on the rope.

Agree - I'd probably use a rolling hitch, with the tail made off back to the main part just in case.

Pete

 

[GHA]

Thanks all, some interesting techniques.

Back onboard after couple days and already the rope rode had some twists round the main chain so the boat is rotating the same way at least with some tide changes - means joining the 2 under water won't help really as the main rode will just end up with loads of twists. This happened a little while ago anchored in the same spot for couple weeks and took ages to the the anchor up with so many twists in it. Might hole up here for a while so it will end up all twisted if left as is.

Swivel isn't really a choice as it would need to be in the middle of the chain, half the chain is still onboard.

So might try fore and aft - means the chance of winds beam on but the aft rope rode can always go back to the bow if northerlies are forecast.
Or try cleating the rope rode a bit further aft from the bow as suggested above, see if that does anything.

Ta

 

[prv]

Swivel isn't really a choice as it would need to be in the middle of the chain, half the chain is still onboard.

The idea is that the other half of the chain goes to the other anchor. Appreciate you might have good reasons to choose not to do it this way, but the concept is sound.

Pete

 

[GHA]

The idea is that the other half of the chain goes to the other anchor. Appreciate you might have good reasons to choose not to do it this way, but the concept is sound.

Pete

Ah, missed that bit. Unfortunately there's another 50m or so of octaplait nylon spliced onto the chain.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... Swivel isn't really a choice as it would need to be in the middle of the chain, half the chain is still onboard. ,,,

If I under stand SkipperStu's contraption, it removes the two rode twisting risk because the kedge line is secured to a large shackle that is free to rotate around his device that is clamped onto the bower chain. It sounds like a really neat and simple solution.