Baggy sail bene 393 Question ???

Jobs_a_ good_ un

Jobs_a_ good_ un

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www.beneteau393.co.uk
Hi All

When we haul the halyard on the main it doesnt go right to the top of the mast and theres a bit of bag at the bottom end
of the sail the halyard seems to stop going up about 6-8 inchs
from the top
Dores anyone know quite how far it should go up ?????
There seems to much bag at the boom to be just a streched sail
Many thanks
 
It should go almost to the top or all the way to the black bands if present which is the race measurement mark. There are a couple of possible reasons, a) the halyard splice is stopping full hoist by jamming in the top sheave b) the sail is cut to be full size hoist in light airs, ie to the black band and further tensioning as windspeed rises is done via a cunningham downhaul.

If the splice is the cause you could cut it out and simply tie the halyard to the shackle with a halyard knot which will gain you several inches of extra hoist. Otherwise if there is a cunningham eye (or even two) in the bottom of the luff above the boom, then rig a line through this from one side of the mast to a cleat on the other side, ideally round a mast winch or rig a small downhaul tackle to use to apply tension. You might find that there is a matching height eye in the leech area above the boom, this together with the cunningham one was designed to form a small flattening reef, ie it doesn't reduce the area by much but it flattens the bottom third of the sail before the first reef is really needed.

Our mainsail is cut to be in it's light airs position at the black band maximum hoist and we have a cunningham rigged with a line from an eye one side below the boom through the eye onto a spare halyard winch on the mast and to a cleat. We have a spare winch anyway at the mast because our main halyard is led back to the cockpit but if not you could fit a clutch on the mast to release one for cunningham duty.
 
The sail goes tight at the top and at the boom theres the left over sail due to the fact it wont haul any higher
It definetly seems to get stuck about 6-8 inchs from the top hence the baggy bottom
From the feed back Ive had so far I reckon it must be either the halyard splice or a damaged track
If it is the halyard splice how do i cut out the splice and attach the sail ?
 
Has it always been the same?

Hoist the sail & check thro' your binoculars if there is any obvious obstruction.

Go up & have a look!!

If you do end up cutting the splice off then test - in harbour - by tying the halyard directly to the sail with a short bowline.
If it works you have the answer then retie the hakard to the shackle using a halyard knot as suggested; or a tight bowline & sieze the free end; or re-splice...

If it doesn't work then its probably up the mast you go....
 
How high is the clew? If it is droopy at the clew end then it needs hoisting further - if it is at a reasonable height (ie boom is horizontal) then you've either got a stretched luff or it is supposed to be tensioned with the cunningham ....

still sounds odd - but I'd want to know what the clew height was.
 
From your reply it seems like you have a rope halyard. If you look at the splice you should be able to determine just how much space is lost from top of the sail to entrance into the mast (the top sheave).
If it has a splice and shackle and you reckon this is what is stopping the sail, then you can simply cut the halyard remove the shackle and tie the halyard onto the sail. This will remove at least the length of the shackle
You need to examine the load bearing area of the sail head to make sure there are no sharp edges that will cut the halyard under load. If there are you may be able to fit in a nylon thimble to smooth the load on the rope. You may have to cut the thimble to get it into place.

If you think there is a jambing in the track before it gets to the top then you will have go up to investigate or lower the mast. Go up on a jib halyard with mainsail hoisted. In still air.

My mainsail is a little too long for the mast space but I use wire halyard with rope tail spliced in. (less stretch) I have successfully bolted the eye of the wire to the headboard of the sail. Saving the length of the shackle. I made a little SS plate which the wire passes through that goes down paralell to the eye on the other side of the headboard to balance the loads. ie makes a fork. Very difficult to describe but works well. Yes I still have to use cunningham in strong winds to flatten the main. As the halyard does come up against the sheave at the top before the sail is really stretched.
good luck olewill
 
Got a similar sort of problem, if I may but in. In my case the sail seems to haul right to the top, but whilst I can tension the top 70% or whatever of the luff, the bottom 30% has far less tension. Yet there are no snags or signs of damage to the track or sliders and the sail hoists OK. Its a cruiser and there is a flattening reef but I cant see how that prevents tension getting to the bottom 30%

Its a puzzle.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Got a similar sort of problem, if I may but in. In my case the sail seems to haul right to the top, but whilst I can tension the top 70% or whatever of the luff, the bottom 30% has far less tension. Yet there are no snags or signs of damage to the track or sliders and the sail hoists OK. Its a cruiser and there is a flattening reef but I cant see how that prevents tension getting to the bottom 30%


[/ QUOTE ]

It may be that the stretch in the halyard is contributing to the problem, especially if your halyard is extra long by being taken back to the cockpit. Rope halyards stretch and even a small %age stretch over the length used can be several inches. We use a Dyneema halyard on our boat because the mast height is over 50ft and then there is another 12ft or so across the coachroof to the clutch, all in all over 60ft which has a potential to stretch by 7.2" if the halyard has just 1% stretch under load. Dyneema stretches very little by comparison to normal braided rope and is significantly stronger but very expensive, ours was £150 on a half price deal!

However the effect you describe could be easily remedied by using the luff eye of your flattening reef in a simple cunningham hole system whereby the bottom part of the luff is tensioned by a downwards pull. There are various ways of doing it depending on your set up. Ours uses a line from an eye on the mast below the boom height on one side, through the eye to a spare winch on the other side of the mast. Another method is a simple handy billy tackle hooked onto the eye with the other end shackled to the mast base. The loads required to tension the cunningham are surprisingly low and you will find a lot can be done even without winch or tackle power. You can even take a few inches off the luff length by setting the cunningham before hoisting the sail in stronger winds, then just using the regular winch on the halyard via the masthead to provide tension, when the wind eases you can then just ease off the cunningham to restore some fullness in the bottom third of the sail.

The 'Cunningham' eye is one of the simplest yet most effective controls available, try it!
 
If the track and sliders are working ok I can only suggest that it is normal friction in the track and sliders that gives you more tension in the top than the bottom of the luff. Slugs can jamb and drag however.
I am sure you can imagine it is easier to get tension in the bottom part of the luff by pulling it down with a cunningham than stretching it from the top via the halyard.

You might however look at the top of the sail with binoculars to see if the halyard is hard against the top pulley or if there is still room for movement. If it is hard against the top then you need to consider a way to get more travel. ie shorten the halyard to sail join or cutting the mainsail down, or even moving the gooseneck lower.
good luck olewill
 
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