Baby Stay

[BurnitBlue]

Looking round all the boats in the boat yard, I notice that masts with swept back spreaders have neither baby stays or forward lowers.

I wish I could get rid of mine because it is a nuisance when tacking, and storing a dinghy on the foredeck.

I also noticed that lots of boats have split back stays like an inverted "Y"

This arrangement to modify the baby stay would help tacking as the Genoa would be catching the wind by the time the bowlines fouled them so would tend to clear them. Also I could carry a dinghy on deck.

Am I missing anything? Is it practical?

Thanks.

 

[PetiteFleur]

What you need is to replace your two sheets with a single sheet twice as long as a single sheet and connected to the clew with a bowline in the centre of this long sheet. This works well and does not snag the baby stay. Much cheaper than changing your rig!
IMPORTANT though - jam 2 pieces of rope, say 10mm diameter x 75mm long , into the bights of the bowline. These are cut off/teased out at the seasons end so the bowline can be undone easily.
Works for me on a Moody 33.

 

[VicS]

Looking round all the boats in the boat yard, I notice that masts with swept back spreaders have neither baby stays or forward lowers.

I wish I could get rid of mine because it is a nuisance when tacking, and storing a dinghy on the foredeck.

I also noticed that lots of boats have split back stays like an inverted "Y"

This arrangement to modify the baby stay would help tacking as the Genoa would be catching the wind by the time the bowlines fouled them so would tend to clear them. Also I could carry a dinghy on deck.

Am I missing anything? Is it practical?


My boat has swept back spreaders and no forward lowers or baby stay. It was popular for small boats at one time. A common mod esp if fitting a new mast is to square off the spreaders and fits forward lowers.

My spreaders are much shorter than is common for non swept back ones. I imagine this is to limit the forward force on the mast .

 

[mrming]

On my boat the baby stay is designed to stop the mast pumping or inverting in a seaway or when heavily flogging the main.

I can safely remove it in flat water and light to medium winds, but once the weather gets heavy it's an important part of keeping the rig up. As such I keep it permanently rigged and attach one long jib sheet with a cow hitch - this doesn't tend to snag up too badly.

I have thought about fitting a highfield lever to allow it to be quickly removed / replaced but it's fairly far down the list.

 

[mjcoon]

...
I also noticed that lots of boats have split back stays like an inverted "Y"

Can't comment about baby stay. But I think the split backstay is just to make access to the sugar scoop bathing platform (or stern-to gang-plank) easier. It has negligible effect on the rig.

Mike.

 

[Tranona]

The baby stay is there for a reason as mrming says. Although you could make it removable for light airs it really is essential for security of the rig. It was a very popular rig at the time your boat was built as it means you don't need forward lowers to support the middle of the spar.

Fractional rigs do not rely on the backstay to hold up but on swept back spreaders and aft location of mainstay. Just different principles from your masthead rig, and as you say the compromise is that it is a PITA to get a big genoa (also popular at the time) around your babystay. So afraid you will have to learn to live with it. No reason however why you should not have split backstays, although not really useful on a masthead rig. On a fractional rig the backstay is used to adjust mast bend and a split backstay is an easy and cheap way of getting adjustment - you will see on many boats tackles of different sorts designed to pull the twin stays down to tighten the backstay and so bend the top of the mast.

You will find more on design and setting up different types of rigs on the Selden site.

 

[Marsupial]

The split backstay is usually fitted to enable a walkthrough transom, Legend yachts don't have a backstay. The demise of the baby stay and forward lowers is a trend that started around 2006 ish as manufacturers sought to leave out as much hardware as possible (is the cynical view). Some say its weight aloft that's been saved others suggest the rigs are lighter but stronger - funny that my Arc Boat has forward and aft lowers and inner and outer shrouds but no baby stay . . . That said rig failures are few and far between. However if your yacht has a baby stay I would suggest you keep it; having spent a few nervous hours in a seaway with a mast that was oscillating furiously WITH A BABYSTAY we were glad to make port. Who knows what would have happened if it was missing?

 

[Searush]

I have a baby stay, fore & aft lowers & swept back (slightly) spreaders. I also have a split backstay to accommodate the Mizzen mast. But my rig is built like a brick outhouse.

 

[VicS]

& swept back (slightly) spreaders.

Thats interesting . I am pretty sure the sloop does not. I did sail the ketch version once or twice many years ago and IIRC the mast was slightly further forward . I guess Westerly moved the mast abit but not the shroud anchorages ..

The sloop version i sailed had a bowsprit like the ketch... reason unknown. PITA because the forestay only went down to the stem head but the anchor rollers were on the bowsprit. Result forestay in the way when trying to deploy the anchor

 

[JumbleDuck]

The split backstay is usually fitted to enable a walkthrough transom,

Kids today, eh? Split backstays have been around for decades longer than walkthrough transoms ... to allow transom mounted rudders with tiller steering. Young folk, ask your Dads what a "tiller" was.

 

[Tranona]

Young folk, ask your Dads what a "tiller" was.

They were girls who had a nice line in dancing (but not actual line dancing)

 

[vyv_cox]

It would be nice not to have a babystay but I have heard of masts that bent forward and collapsed when the one provided was removed.

To improve tacking with a large genoa we now have doublebraid sheets with an eye splice at the forward end. These are attached to the cringle at the clew using a Dyneema soft shackle. This arrangement never snags and has been a massive improvement over bowlines.

Gybing the spinnaker is tedious but a lazy guy/sheet system seems to be the best that can be done.

 

[jerrytug]

That sounds a very good sheet set-up Vyv, food for thought.

 

[Marsupial]

Kids today, eh? Split backstays have been around for decades longer than walkthrough transoms ... to allow transom mounted rudders with tiller steering. Young folk, ask your Dads what a "tiller" was.

Dad says he doesn't know what a tiller is, his boat had a board lashed to the starboard side and a single backstay.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Dad says he doesn't know what a tiller is, his boat had a board lashed to the starboard side and a single backstay.

Does his hat have horns, by any chance?

 

[BurnitBlue]

Thanks for all the replies. Thunderstorms in the Ionion caused a break in the boatyard internet access for 24 hours. Sorry. Couldn't get back to the thread.

I have took the advise and will keep the baby stay as designed. I particularly noted the advice to improve the sheet attachment to the genoa. I have used twin bowlines up to now because I have used that system for donkeys years but that was when I didn't have a baby stay on previous boats.

Time for a re-think.

I agree, I think the goal will be to make a smooth transfer between the port and starboard sheets to prevent them catching, and in my case actually getting stuck causing me to go forward to release the baby stay from the centre of the two knots. What is really required is a continuous unbroken line with a built in stub to attach to the genoa. Taking that as the benchmark I will get as close as I can to a smooth transition. There should be a commercial solution to this.

I will try the solutions mentioned. If that solves the problem you have my eternal gratitude. Thanks

 

[vyv_cox]

I'm on a wifi link now so can post a photo of our setup.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I'm on a wifi link now so can post a photo of our setup.

Thanks for the picture. I can see that there is actually nothing to catch on the baby stay. I will set that up on my sheets. Could save me a lot of stress.

 

[mrming]

A cow hitch takes up even less space again.

If you have a roller genoa the knot can be difficult to get open after a whole season, but it works well for us with hank on headsails.

 

[Storyline]

.....

To improve tacking with a large genoa we now have doublebraid sheets with an eye splice at the forward end. These are attached to the cringle at the clew using a Dyneema soft shackle. This arrangement never snags and has been a massive improvement over bowlines.

.....

Viv, how do you tie (knot) the Dyneema soft shackle ?