Avon do'nuts

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m1taylor

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Avon do\'nuts

Forgive the second posting in a short period - but I was perhaps asking the wrong question when comparing a tinker with an Avon in my previous post. I like the thought of getting a new Redcrest (bigger version of Redstart). Arguments for seem to be longeity and reputation, fact that 9ft light dinghy is rated for 4 persons plus outboard, and flat/easy packing.

I think the downsides are no inflatable keel - floor is slats, but air floor can be retro fitted (checked with Avon).

The unknowns for me - how much better is the hyperlon than say what you buy with a YAM or Suzumar?

How much is the floppiness an issue with these do'nuts? Please bear in mind I am looking at this as a runabout in calm waters, and I am not looking for a performance rib - it wouldn't plane anyway with my 2.5hp outboard!

How well does the new style fibreglass outboard bracket work on Avons?

According to the web site the new Redcrest/Redstart are "now improved" - can anyone tell me what the design differences are between the old versions and the new?
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

For longevity It has to be Hypalon rather than PVC. It is sunlight that causes the problems with PVC so provided you minimised exposure to sunlight you could get a reasonable life from a PVC one. They are much less expensive of course.

We use a very old (at least 30 yrs old) Avon Redstart, with floppy floor, and a 2 hp outboard. There have never been any problems with that. A slatted or inflatable floor would be nice because a liitle water in the bottom always pools to where you stand so its wellies or wet feet! If you do not need it for performance it is up to you whether the exra cost is worth it or not.
In calm conditions we have often had 4 in the Redstart
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

It is very easy with the Avon to make your own solid floor in three pieces from marine ply. I recently did this for a mate whose wife was perturbed by the wobbly floor when getting from the boat to the tender. Its held in place by the dinghy itself. Cut to shape, one piece for aft, one for the middle up to the inflatable seat, and one for the forard end. the two aft pieces are joined by using a bit of alloy double channel originally used for joining two bits of carpet, and the edges protected by some u shaped rubber. the whole lot is placed in the dinghy before it's inflated, and is then held in place by the shape of the tube as it's blown up. As for longevity I know of many Avons well into their twenties, and my old Tinker is now doing sterling service with a mate in the med at around 22 years old. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

[ QUOTE ]
For longevity It has to be Hypalon rather than PVC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do Decitex and Valmex come in?

I'm curious as like jimminy I'm researching a flubber for next season. This looks like good value, as does this . No idea what the material is though.

Mike
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

There's a tip in the current PBO for a floor in an Avon. Ikea sell bed base slats as a separate item, cost about £10. The ends can be trimmed to fit an Avon floor with little effort. A bit of paint and they will last for ages.

Sorry to disagree with many of you. My personal view is that Avons are grossly over-rated. I have seen several flip backwards when fitted with the outboard bracket, which is an abortion of a thing if ever I saw one. They neither row nor motor well. So far as longevity is concerned, I have a Zodiac in the old style PVC. I have owned it since 1988, towed behind the boat, carried on trailers or on roofs of cars. My son has had it in the Med for the past five years. Its material is in perfect condition and shows no sign of degradation. I replaced it with a Quicksilver which is made in a modified form of PVC, this is almost indistinguishable from Hypalon. Over the past five years or so it has been inflated in the Med for much of the time and looks like new. It has a decent transom, an inflatable floor and performs well with oars or engine. It was half the price of an Avon and is a million times better.
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

You're in a pretty small minority if you think the Zodiac comes anywhere near an Avon in terms of quality or longevity. Try a search here...
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

For what it's worth, here's my twopenn'orth;-
I have a slatted floor and wood transom. It's no big deal to roll it good & flat to stow in front of a hatch. I can even get it back in the original bag that was supplied with it if I'm on the dockside. I find the slatted floor much better than wobbly bottoms /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif and a whole heap lighter than solid floors. As to inflatable keels, I found they only help with a higher power o/b. With 2hp or less they aren't worth the extra hassle.
Used in sometimes choppy conditions with very strong currents and often heavily loaded with a journey distance of around 5-600m
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

Agree a floor makes a big difference. The inflatable Avon one is very good, and obviously much lighter than wood
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

I have 2 Redcrests, the newest I bought (new) in 1984. Both lasting well with no patches despite heavy use. To answer your points:

- Air floors can be retrofitted to CURRENT models. The older ones were never offered with air floors. I have found that a 6 1/2 ft Zodiac inflatable floor is pretty close to a perfect fit on the old models though (£45 at a Boat Jumble).

- Agree with Hypalon for longevity.

- As a calm water run about it's fine.

- The fibreglass o/b bracket requires the aft section to be at least partially deflated to fit or remove the bracket. The old metal ones could be fitted or removed at will.

- Don't know about any recent improvements - ask Avon.

The round tail dinghies don't perform as well as the sportboat shapes but offer more floor space for a given length (no sponsons!) are lighter, and store in a lot less space. The last 2 factors are the deciders for me.
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

[ QUOTE ]
You're in a pretty small minority if you think the Zodiac comes anywhere near an Avon in terms of quality or longevity. Try a search here...

[/ QUOTE ]Just a couple of observations... Avon, Zodiac, Bombard are AFAIK all the same group, Zodiac Marine. I have had a Zodiac years ago, and a Redcrest for yonks. The Zodiac material is actually superior to the Avon (as owners, Z have access to all A technology), particularly in abrasions resistance. HOWEVER, both are superb, and ordinary users are unlikely to find any difference in use. Ditto for the bonding techniques.

Let the truth be told about REDCREST, or other A donuts: except in a calm, or lovely warm weather where getting wet is fine - you really need to wear your oilies if you are going anything other than the shortest distance. Typical was this summer, we were in Salcombe, anchored up-river, and had to use the R to get in to town for shopping. A bit of a breeze was blowing, wind against tide. Without oilies, we would have been completely soaked. At times, we were wondering if our life-jackets were going to come in useful at last!! Other than that, they are great, you can mistreat them, use them as giant fenders, drag them up a beach... lovely jubbly. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

Maybe things have changed. My Zodiac has lasted remarkably well for a material that most people expect to degrade in about five years. The quality of manufacture is very good for its price.

However, the Quicksilver is far superior in terms of material. I bought it as a result of the YM test in which it almost came out as best buy, narrowly beaten by the Suzumar which in that year was unobtainable in Europe.
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

Jimminy,
I have only only just taken the trouble to look at your profile. I see you own a 17ft boat.
I suggest you take a good look at how and where you will stow a dinghy the size of a Redcrest or even a Redstart for that matter. A few years ago I bought a barely used Avon Typhoon 2.4. I found it impossibly large to stow in my 19ft Seawych. Any kind of floor will make the stowage even more of a problem similarly a rigid transom. In a small boat even the outboard bracket can become a problem to stow.! (The "WE" I refererd to in my early post was me and a friend and his 31ft Berwick.)

What I want is a much smaller boat to replace an old Achilles that has now reached the end of its useful life.

I cant answer MikeBz's question about Decitex or Valmex. A Google search or two should be able to establish the identity of them. I would not be surprised to discover that there were simply registered names for PVC coated fabrics. One thing for sure is that any one who make dinghies from Hypalon coated material will say so. There are very few others now apart from Avon who still use it though.


Yes Decitex is PVC, still don't know about Valmex Somewhere it said it was weldable so probably PVC as well
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

Hi Vics, It is not really a tender I am after - actually I use a plywood pram to row from a dinghy rack out to my mooring. Generally as I potter around Salcombe Estuary, I leave the tender on the mooring. The idea of the inflatable is that even wooden prams are not that portable, and certainly not that stable. Certainly three is the maximum pay load, and then it's quite over loaded. So with so many other places in South Devon in the summer, thought it would be nice to have an inflatable.
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

Yes I have a rigid dinghy to get out to the mooring which then stays there. I have always had a inflatable as well which I normally leave on board.

The first was a Campari, I think, fairly old when I got it and it did not last long. IIRC it was made of Neoprene coated fabric but that does not stand up to much exposure to sunlight. I replaced that with an Achilles of identical design but made of Hypalon. They were somewhat better than kids beach toys but a long way short of a Avon or even any of the more modern PVC dinghies. When that was coming to the end of its life I came across the 2.4 m Typhoon at a price I could not ignore but it proved to be to big to stow easily needing much more space than the old ones even without its floor boards. In fact I have never used it. One year I put it on board but it took up so much space I took it off again and put the old Achilles back on board. I only want it for rowing ashore from an anchorage or from visitors moorings so I only need the most basic of craft but it must be possible to stow it away when not in use. A Sevylor would do but that really is little more than a beach toy, a good beach toy perhaps. I do not need to be able to use an outboard on it.

So that is the tale of woe that made me suggest that you consider the size of the Redstart and Redcrest in relation to the space you have available to stow it.

Personally I am still looking for something to replace the old Achilles. If I dont find something I will have to use the Typhoon and just put up with it occupying half the cabin!
 
Re: Avon do\'nuts

I have a Redcrest bought new in 1998 and still looking good. The GRP outboard bracket tends to deform the tube under power( Tohatsu 2.5) unless the tube is at maximum pressure. Balance with outboard fitted caught me out when sitting next to the engine to refuel resulted in the dinghy rearing up and me having to decide on a flooded outboard or a swim! I chose the swim but apparently looked very surprised when I surfaced!!
 
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