Avon conversion to life raft

[Guest]

Iwish to convert my avon rover to a life raft.Any advice would be greatly recieved,especially on automatic inflation.Many thanks.

 

[Guest]

I personally think this is foolish!!!

Balast bags??

 

[Guest]

Rightly or wrongly I\'ve done it!!!!!

My Avon is a 2.81 metre RIB. I contacted the Tinker people in Somerset with the measurements of my dinghy, and they supplied me with an inflatable canopy and lacing points to stick on my Avon. In normal daily use only the lacing points are visible. For going on a voyage the dinghy is stowed on deck partialy inflated with the canopy also partially inflated with emergency equipment and hand pumps stowed inside in water proof containers. The Tinker people have auto-inflation equipment if you are prepared for the extra cost.

I also have an' Outboard Sail' made in Finland, that mounts on the stern and does not obstruct the canopy.

An RIB does not capsize easily, your Zodiac if it is not an RIB may. Try some experiments and get an RIB if it is not successful.

I am NOT in favour of the concept of 'I'm in trouble come and get me', I prefer to do my best to look after myself. A liferaft does not sail well, and is for the 'come and get me 'crowd.

I go to sea for my own pleasure, any problems I have are my own affair. I am prepared to die even, if I don't succeed. Warships to the Southern Ocean to collect a person who is doing it for his own pleasure, is VERY VERY wrong in my opinion. Do your best to HELP YOUR SELF.

Good Luck.

 

[Guest]

Liferafts

Warships to the Southern Ocean are fairly accepted on cost grounds now as it gives the peronel "Real Expierience" of possible rescues needed at a time of war.

I am also in favour of "Help your self" if possible but personally I think that it would be even more fool hardy to risk the lifes of fellow sailors because of cost. IE a liferaft is about £600 new, to hire is cheaper in the short term and in my opinion it all depends on how much you value you and your fellow sailors lifes.

Incidently, I am a fully trained inflatable boat repair specialist and I have been working with RIBS and inflatables for at least 8 years, I can safely say RIBS are usually fairly dificult to capsize when using an engine to manouvre etc, however this does not apply to a RIB with no proper propulsion, all it takes to capsize a RIB is being hit broad side by a wave of 2 metres in size and you have had it I am affraid.

There is a good reason why Liferafts exist as the principal method of survival, that is becuase they are by far and away the safest!!

 

[Guest]

Couldn\'t agree more

My 2.6 metre dinghy ships waves bigger than about a foot and capsizes in a 3 ft swell.

I have been in a 20 man liferaft on a training course, in open sea but not especially rough conditions. It was horrendous, the floor was tilting to alarming angles on every wave and almost everybody was sick within 15 minutes. A small dinghy would have capsized on every wave and probably pich-poled on many of them.

I can't imagine how you could fit a water-tight canopy on an Avon, nor, as pointed out above, water ballast bags.

Righting a liferaft after a capsize is surprisingly difficult but righting a tender is almost impossible.

 

[Guest]

Re: Liferafts

Stephen,

With your self admitted occupation, you are very very likely to respond as you do, namely in favour of liferafts. No offense intended.

However, life rafts hire for cruising people is not a viable proposition, hiring is short term only. I suspect Ken is thinking of a cruising scenario. Neither do I question the safety of liferafts. However, they are not design to be navigated across the sea. Neither do I think that cost is the issue involved here. It is basically an issue of 'self reliance'.

I have friends who have cruised the world for 25 years safely without a liferaft. Their 'liferaft' was an unsinkable hard dinghy with sails, plus of course emergency kits with the objective of 'self reliance'.

I also have other friends in the same bracket, now in Vancouver, who have a similar approach. They have not ignored the emergency scenario, they have put a great deal of thought into it, BUT have not opted for an inflateable liferaft.

The philosophy of 'do your best to help yourself', NOT crying for the authorities to 'come and get me', is the way to go I feel, PROVIDED that you do it for pleasure.

Commercial cargo craft with payed crews and aircraft carrying fare paying passengers are liferaft canditates, and SHOULD carry such equipment.

Refering to the rest of the 'crew' going with you, any one sailing with you should have signed a 'letter of indemnity' stating that they go with you at there own risk. This I feel is unsavoury terminology in many circles these days, 'doing something at your own risk'?

The publicity of warships racing across oceans to help one who does it for pleasure, does not do any good for a past time that should encourage self reliance.

Don't though let's miss the objective of this correspondence started by Ken. Namely, how to fit a canopy to an inflatable to be used as a 'liferaft'. I prefer a modified RIB, whereas he is thinking a a simple inflatable.

I think your comments on stablility are very valid in comparing an RIB to a simple inflatable. However, increasing stability too much in such a small craft is not going to help navigability.

The Tinker people will help with the canopy I'm sure, they did for me.

What does Ken have to say?

 

[Guest]

Self delusion

I can't deny that you have carried a botched-up liferaft for however-many years, under the mistaken impression that you could look after yourself if you were forced into it. The reality is that it would be untenable in quite moderate conditions.

Reports of the Sydney Hobart race disaster told of 8-man liferafts bowling across the water, even with people inside them. But at least the people remained inside and, as far as I know, survived. I give your RIB zero chance in those conditions.

 

[Guest]

Re: Self delusion

The conditions in you are talking about, are avoided by the more prudent. Racing people are very fond of going on a passage when others would wait for more favourable weather. Most of the 'bad' publicity on 'sailing' is from racing events that have dates set in stone months or years in advance, and take place no matter the conditions. Those with a more prudent approach, wait for a good weather window and make an uneventful passage. Thousands do world wide. Do you remember the Hiscocks or have they been forgotten already? They sailed the world with a prudent approach to passages arriving safely with little or no publicity or fanfare. They had no GPS, EPIRBs nor inflatable liferafts ! The Tinker is designed to be both a tender and a 'liferaft' that can be navigated. Why not a conversion of another suitable craft that can also be navigable to allow one to help one's self without dramatic rescues by expensive methods as was asked originally. Even better, could the liferaft manufacturers not design more navigable craft that would enable the concept of self reliance to be maintained, similar to sensible Tinker idea or even better. Safe navigability and self reliance are the objectives.

 

[Guest]

UNTESTED AND UNPROVEN

Dear John The Tinker concept has been exhaustively tested in wind and wave tanks under scientific conditions. The full size items were then rigorously tested at sea while shepherded closely by safety boats. I'm not saying that what you've done is wrong - its just that you have no proof and no assurance that it will do as you would wish when the S%£t hits the fan.

I would venture to suggest that you have never attempted to get into your modified craft from the water after you have fought for hours to save her and then collapsed from the sheer exhaustion of working the pumps in a storm. Nor, most probably, have you worked out how to right the rib after it has been rolled by breakers. In a tinker you just walk round the inside of the canopy.

I would also query what size drogue you use on what length of warp and how you arranged for the drogue securing point to always be at the front of the craft.

I would not, and do not, risk my family's lives in unproven and untested equipment.

I would also think that any competent lawyer would skin you alive in a court case if anyone got hurt using your contraption - waiver notice or no. I mean when the sh%t has hit the fan do you go below decks into a raging fire to save a piece of paper?

Fair winds Ken

 

[Guest]

Considering you want a life raft in the water and inflated ASAP any conversion of a tender doesn't sound like a good idea. I've got a Tinker with liferaft package which I don't think is adequate - it's far too fiddly to prepare and even when in the water you've still got work to do. A dediacted liferaft is a much better idea.