Australian Citizenship / Residency for sailing in the Med

[Pete Carr]

I have dual citizenship , UK and Australian. I have both passports, but I have lived most of my life in the UK
For Tax / VAT purposes, it may be beneficial for me to purchase a boat (VAT not paid) as an Australian Citizen / Resident
Does anyone know what is likely to be required by any EU authorities as proof of Australian Residency?

My Daughters live in Australia, so I have an address I can use,
I am over there in a few weeks time, so if I need to set things like bank accounts up, it could be a very prudent opportunity

I am aware that I would have to comply with the 90/180 day shengen dance if everything is done as an Aussie.

Many thanks in advance.

Pete.

 

[lindsay]

You will get some useful replies but the truth is NOONE KNOWS YET. Browse through recent posts and you will find questions from people with dual nationalities.

Just one general non boatie observation, if you are lucky to have two legal passports you cannot go far wrong in having a bank account in each country. It can come in useful in many ways...ie each bank identified with a single passport for each one, and an address for each one.

 

[Graham376]

I assume you're talking about buying a new boat? This year, I think a UK resident would have to pay VAT immediately if basing the boat in the EU, whereas an Australian would be given 18 months at a stretch. Next year (unless a deal is done) it appears Brits and their boats will be treated the same as any other non European. I don't know what details would be required to buy a boat VAT free for export.

If buying second hand, as a UK citizen, just base it in EU for B day and get residence (maybe Portugal, costs about €15) and you and the boat can stay as long as you want.

 

[Ningaloo]

You and the boat are treated separately. After the end of the year it probably won't matter if you buy as UK or AUS in EU unless you plan to return boat to UK. Both will be restricted to 18 months in EU before being liable for VAT but that clock is reset by a single day outside EU.
After this year you will find it slightly easier to travel to EU on your Australian passport as you can get visa on arrival. As things stand currently, UK citizens will need to apply for visa before departure. Both will be limited to 90 days every 180.

 

[Pete Carr]

Thanks for the replies.
Just to clarify, my intention is to buy a used, VAT not paid boat. and I very much doubt it will ever come to the UK
I am aware that as a UK resident no-one knows what IS going to happen yet.

As I have the opportunity to potentially purchase as an Australian resident, what I was trying to establish, is what various EU officials might want to see, to satisfy them that I am an Aussie resident? As has been said many times Citizenship and residency can be viewed very differently.

 

[Pete Carr]

You will get some useful replies but the truth is NOONE KNOWS YET. Browse through recent posts and you will find questions from people with dual nationalities.

Just one general non boatie observation, if you are lucky to have two legal passports you cannot go far wrong in having a bank account in each country. It can come in useful in many ways...ie each bank identified with a single passport for each one, and an address for each one.

I think opening a bank account in Australia, whilst I'm visiting could be a wise move then

 

[Pete Carr]

Another linked question if I may.
Assuming said boat was purchased as an Australian Resident, would it matter where the boat is registered?
i.e. would it be wise to have it registered in Australia, or could it be UK flagged?

 

[Graham376]

Another linked question if I may.
Assuming said boat was purchased as an Australian Resident, would it matter where the boat is registered?
i.e. would it be wise to have it registered in Australia, or could it be UK flagged?

Yes, some counties require you to be resident in country to register a boat there. Also, a resident of an EU State (including UK at the moment) you can't avoid paying on a boat purchased ex-VAT for export, if it stays in territory.

 

[Pete Carr]

Yes, some counties require you to be resident in country to register a boat there. Also, a resident of an EU State (including UK at the moment) you can't avoid paying on a boat purchased ex-VAT for export, if it stays in territory.

Interesting, so are you saying that (at the moment) any UK flagged boat, would be liable to pay VAT if it stays in EU waters, for longer than say a 30 day transit ?

 

[Graham376]

Interesting, so are you saying that (at the moment) any UK flagged boat, would be liable to pay VAT if it stays in EU waters, for longer than say a 30 day transit ?

No, at the moment UK boats are free to roam the EU if VAT paid and will (it appears) still be able to do so if physically in EU when we exit. Problem is, you haven't defined whether you intend to buy a new boat ex VAT and where or, a second hand one which may be subject to VAT if brought into EU or UK and, whether this year or next as different situations will most likely apply. Suggest you read some of the import/export documents on UK VAT site.

 

[Irish Rover]

Interesting, so are you saying that (at the moment) any UK flagged boat, would be liable to pay VAT if it stays in EU waters, for longer than say a 30 day transit ?

As I understand it [and I welcome any corrections as I don't want to mislead to OP]
- anyone can purchase a VAT NOT PAID boat in the EU,
- If the purchaser is an EU resident [incl UK at present] you either have to pay the VAT or apply for a 30 day Transit Log to give you time to take the boat out of the EU,
- if the purchaser is a non EU resident you can apply for an 18 month transit log,
- I believe it is possible for a UK flagged boat to be VAT NOT PAID in the EU if the owner is resident outside the EU but I'm assuming it would have to be part 1 registration as you need to be resident in the UK to qualify for Part 111. It would probably be more straightforward to have a non EU flag however as it would likely attract less attention.
- As an Irish citizen resident in Turkey I've had varying experiences with Customs in Greece in terms of satisfying them about my residency. Mostly they accept my Turkish permanent residence card as sufficient proof but I did on one occasion have a stickler who wanted additional proof and I was able to show the entrance and exit stamps on my passport which showed I spend the vast majority of my time in Turkey
- I can't imagine a customs officer looking too deeply into a situation where someone with an Oz passport and Oz registered boat applies for a transit log.

 

[wwalsh]

there are two different scenarios

1) An australian sells his vat not paid boat in Greece
2) A Greek charter company sells their not vat paid boat in Greece

scenario 1 would be under the radar
scenario 2 the vat if required to be paid would have to be paid at time of sale (it would be paid to the tax office by the charter company)
and if not required to be paid, the greek government would require various proofs of the non-eu residency of the buyer and the boat would have to be exported using customs agent (although it could be exported on paper and then continue to sail around greece on a new transit log)

 

[Pete Carr]

As I understand it [and I welcome any corrections as I don't want to mislead to OP]
- anyone can purchase a VAT NOT PAID boat in the EU,
- If the purchaser is an EU resident [incl UK at present] you either have to pay the VAT or apply for a 30 day Transit Log to give you time to take the boat out of the EU,
- if the purchaser is a non EU resident you can apply for an 18 month transit log,
- I believe it is possible for a UK flagged boat to be VAT NOT PAID in the EU if the owner is resident outside the EU but I'm assuming it would have to be part 1 registration as you need to be resident in the UK to qualify for Part 111. It would probably be more straightforward to have a non EU flag however as it would likely attract less attention.
- As an Irish citizen resident in Turkey I've had varying experiences with Customs in Greece in terms of satisfying them about my residency. Mostly they accept my Turkish permanent residence card as sufficient proof but I did on one occasion have a stickler who wanted additional proof and I was able to show the entrance and exit stamps on my passport which showed I spend the vast majority of my time in Turkey
- I can't imagine a customs officer looking too deeply into a situation where someone with an Oz passport and Oz registered boat applies for a transit log.

Sounds like Oz registration of the boat would be the way to go, if this scenario comes to fruition.

 

[Stingo]

@Pete Carr I'd suggest that before deciding on Oz registration, check if the Oz Receiver of Robbingyou want some form of import duty + vat?

 

[Pete Carr]

there are two different scenarios

1) An australian sells his vat not paid boat in Greece
2) A Greek charter company sells their not vat paid boat in Greece

scenario 1 would be under the radar
scenario 2 the vat if required to be paid would have to be paid at time of sale (it would be paid to the tax office by the charter company)
and if not required to be paid, the greek government would require various proofs of the non-eu residency of the buyer and the boat would have to be exported using customs agent (although it could be exported on paper and then continue to sail around greece on a new transit log)

Ah! there are many scenarios'
How about: Canadian owner sells his VAT not paid boat in Turkey, to an Australian citizen / resident.
This is the scenario of one particular boat I am looking at.

 

[Irish Rover]

there are two different scenarios

1) An australian sells his vat not paid boat in Greece
2) A Greek charter company sells their not vat paid boat in Greece

scenario 1 would be under the radar
scenario 2 the vat if required to be paid would have to be paid at time of sale (it would be paid to the tax office by the charter company)
and if not required to be paid, the greek government would require various proofs of the non-eu residency of the buyer and the boat would have to be exported using customs agent (although it could be exported on paper and then continue to sail around greece on a new transit log)

I'm not 100% sure I quite understand all that but, in my case, I bought a VAT NOT PAID boat in Greece 2 years ago. The boat was on the hard when I bought it and no effort was made to conceal from customs how or where the sale took place. After purchase I went to the customs. Initially they assumed I was an EU resident because of my Irish passport and told me I could get a one month transit log to enable me to take the boat out of the EU. Having satisfied them about my actual place of residence they issued an 18 month transit log . There was never any question of having to using a customs agent.

 

[Pete Carr]

@Pete Carr I'd suggest that before deciding on Oz registration, check if the Oz Receiver of Robbingyou want some form of import duty + vat?

Sorry, I dont understand.

 

[Stingo]

Sorry, I dont understand.

Will there be any tax implications with registering the boat in Oz even if the boat is physically in the EU?

 

[Graham376]

Ah! there are many scenarios'
How about: Canadian owner sells his VAT not paid boat in Turkey, to an Australian citizen / resident.
This is the scenario of one particular boat I am looking at.

So far, your question has been about VAT but, don't forget the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) rules on import of "foreign" boats into the EU, which can cost a packet. Unless you narrow down your objectives, it's impossible to give accurate advice and bear in mind, we only have rumours about what the future may hold.

 

[Pete Carr]

So far, your question has been about VAT but, don't forget the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) rules on import of "foreign" boats into the EU, which can cost a packet. Unless you narrow down your objectives, it's impossible to give accurate advice and bear in mind, we only have rumours about what the future may hold.

OK. if my plan comes to fruition, I am happy to flit around the Med, in and out of Shengen areas to satisfy whatever is required, and winter the boat outside the shengen zone which I believe should keep everyone happy??