audit trail!

[Phoenix of Hamble]

What is the learned forums opinion on a boat where clear evidence of VAT status exists, but a line of ownership with 'bills of sale' is not complete from that documentation to the current owner/seller....

Is having the proof that no VAT was owing in a name, but an inability to audit that name right the way to yourself as the current owner enough? or am I just expecting miracles to have that perfect document trail exist in a sub £25k boat of knocking on 30 years old.....?

 

[benjenbav]

May get shot down in flames on this because, although I am a lawyer, this is not my area and I am only speaking from the perspective of trying to sell my 19 year old boat at the moment. I have a certificate from HM C&E which says that at a certain date VAT was acknowledged as having been paid. Since then the boat has been sold privately (which would not have been a VAT supply) and now I am selling it and I am selling privately so again not a VAT supply.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Thats fine..... but does the HMCE certificate mention an owners name.... and do you have all the bills of sale to trace ownership from that person to the present?

my understanding is that the VAT paid status passes on through all private sales... or more precisely through all sales of persons or business that are not VAT registered, eg are unable to claim back the VAT....

Also, is the certifcate you have a S.A.D. form (form C88) from HMCE?

 

[tcm]

um, you don't need the documents - until you need the documents. Documents are only used to deflect someone in officladome from taking away "your" boat or from someone in the chain from reclaiming "their" boat. If you can't afford a problem - there are loads of other boats.

sepretly, yep, 30 years old, you could take a view....

 

[tonyran]

I think Im right in saying that you need proof of VAT payment in case the boat has been imported into the eu from a jurisdiction outside the eu. This is the same as paying VAT on any imported goods. Once VAT has been paid it doesnt matter how many times the asset is sold. You need proof of VAT payment if taking the boat abroad as local excise officials (ie the French) may try to whack you for VAT again.

No doubt the RYA have an opinion - I'm only an accountant.

 

[benjenbav]

Yes the cert is a SAD C88 issued by HM C&E (it does mention the owner's name) and yes I do have all the bills of sale from the person to whom it was issued to me.

Don't think I would have been happy to go ahead without this evidence unless I had a spare 17.5% which I didn't want.

 

[salamicollie]

Perhaps worrying a bit too much but then I only have to deal with Irish officialdom when cruising abroad. Last boat only had a bill of sale for when I bought it, current boat has a bill of sale trail back to 1990 or so but otherwise no evidence of VAT being paid.

Design however ceased manufacture in 1985 and despite the sail number indicating that it probably went from the Swedish builders to Norway before arriving in the UK sometime before 1990 I reckon I've got a fighting chance except against the French!

I'll take my chance on this - it is very hard to get a perfect paper trail on something 20 years old - let alone 30

BTW the SAD is/was a standard document used for all sorts of purposes and was used for customs/VAT purposes - I ve seen thousands of them in the days pre Single European Act

 

[snowleopard]

[ QUOTE ]
Once VAT has been paid it doesnt matter how many times the asset is sold.

[/ QUOTE ]

sadly this is not the case. if the boat is sold outside the EU then brought back in, VAT is payable a second time. there is no limit to the number of bites they can take from the cherry.