Attaching genoa sheets?

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jamesdestin

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Sorting things out today on my first boat. My genoa sheets are made with one long sheet with a whipped eye around a nylon thimble. There was then a bronze shackle and a big bronze snap shackle. Both very gungy and bulky. Had a quick look around the other pontoons. Most people seem to use 2 separate sheets attached to sail with a bowline, a few use a whipped eye and a (various types of) shackle. I put a smaller s/s shackle on which at least looked in proportion. Anybody got any view on pros and cons?
 
Shackles and thimbles can cause injury when dealing with a flogging head sail, which is why most people use two sheets and bowlines to attach them.
 
Whilst there is a lot of truth in the concern about the flogging shackle damage, I do use a captive pin shackle as it tends not to catch in the rigging on my boat in the same way that a double bowline system does. It is also more convenient to me to have a nylon bush and a single shackle, than two bowlines.
 
Also you can't 'end for end' the sheet(s) to reduce wear. I'd go for two sheets and use bowlines. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jerry
 
A tip used by all the Sonata racers is to use a single sheet - as it tacks easier and quicker than 2 sheets, without catching - but tie the single sheet at the clew with a simple knot and a short 6mm strop. More details on the Sonata's website. I can provode the web address if anyone wants.
 
G'day Tony,

You could remove the whipping and use a single sheet, no shackles to cause damage etc.

Later, when the sheets show signs of wear you can cut and end for end them. The single sheet system reduces the size and number of knots.

Hope this helps

Avagoodweekend.

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I had the same system as you on my old boat (I still have it, it's just old) and went to two sheets with bowlines.
Result: Even worse snagging on the shrouds. A lot of older rigs have cap shrounds "in the way".
The idea Brian mentioned seems worth a go. Have a look here. It's difficult to spot the sheets straight away, but there is a disclaimer about them being twisted on the left of the pic.
 
I use a single double-length sheet and a single bowline. It's neat, doesn't snag and has no ironmongery to take the crew's eyes out or make the clew sag in light winds. It takes a little time to tie (all of 5 minutes!) as there is lot of rope to pull through the rabbit hole, but I only have to do it once a year. When tying the bowline I take the bight (that will become the starboard sheet) around the standing part (the port sheet) the 'wrong way' so that it exits on the outside of the knot rather than the normal inside. The bowline withstands the enormous loads required from both sheets and has never capsized on me in 15 years though I will admit to using my large molegrips to assist when untying it for the winter.
 
I tend to agree with Medman. On my boat the main wear part is the genoa sheets, They fray where the rope bears on the sail cringle unless you have a good thimble which just makes everything big to catch on things, They also fray where they go into cam cleats after the winch. The answer is to move the wear points around frequently. So if you use Medmans bowline in the middle of the sheet then move it off centre occasionally. Then you can change over competely to have an endless sheet ie 2 bowlines at the clew and no end in the cockpit. This works well if your sheet is a bit short. The simple answer is try every thing and see which you prefer or better still keep changing. regards olewill
 
I'd fleetingly thought of that, but the point that always caught when I had a whipped loop in a long sheet was not the hardware but the bifurcation after the whipping (the "Y" in the sheet).
I may try your idea though before cutting the new sheet into two.

(The snap shackle that was attached when I got the boat was a disaster. It would snap onto the cap shroud leaving me stuck on whichever tack I was going about to, so I had to keep running forwards to unclip it. Luckily I have protectors on the shrouds))
 
I have the snap shackle and swivel idea ... does hurt when it connects with your head !! But having tried bowlines and all sorts to do it - this is only way I can get sheets to feed past my spinnaker pole eye on front of mast ...

An old way and soft as well is to leave the sheets as one length and then at mid point form a bight and fix a short piece of line ... you then pass the bight of sheet through the sail clew and the short piece of line through the eye formed. Pull the sheets back so that it pulls up tight on the rope "pin" .... Now the bight is too big to pull through and you have a 'soft' connection. It is relatively easy to take apart and is easily altered etc.

One problem with endless sheet ideas is the twisting of the sheets ... which separate sheets with bowlines tends to overcome ..... even with my swivel snap chackle etc. - it still does it after a few hours sailing ....

My view is that with my sheets ... when the mid point wears etc. - I will cut and revert to a separate sheet system with bowlines until I buy new.

One thing if you are not racing etc. and want to get that genny across and tend to snag .... hold the genny aback till it fills when going about ... then release and sheet in quick ... a) it pushes the bow round faster, b) tends to help prevent getting in irons and failing to cross the wind, c) when you let fly and bring in other sheet - the sail has pretty well crossed over without snagging for you ....

OK doesn't always work - but helps !!
 
You don't say whether you have a roller genoa or selection of hanked foresails. On an earlier boat with the latter I used a single sheet with a siezed/sewn soft eye in the middle. Each sail clew had a length of 6mm or 8mm line which I tied to the sheet eye using a double sheet bend. I did find however, like others, that the bifurcation point occasionally caught on things (particularly mast cleats).

I am considering trying a variation of this on my current boat when I next replace the sheets since the current twin bowlines often get caught up. I was thinking about siezing a loop in the sheet, but making it in the form of a "round turn" to avoid a bifurcation point - perhaps with a bit of light line siezed on to the other side of the loop to further "streamline" it. Anyone tried this?
 
A tip that used to be used in cats to stop jib sheets tangling around mast rotator is to tie a piece of shockcord between mast and forestay/bridle join. I've often thought of trying it on Amber, but never got round to it. SOrt of like a short flexible babystay.....
 
Another shackleless option. Twin bowlines were a real nightmare for me since I have a babystay and were the first thing I changed on the good ship Silkie.

I now use one-piece (double length) sheets secured to the genoa clew with a cow hitch variant. This is basically a cow hitch with an extra turn around the two working ends and should be in most of the decent knot books. It is a small and very "clean" knot which has dramatically improved the "hanging-up" situation.
 
My race boat had a snap ring that had multiple turns round the ring before each sheet was made off ... so that the sheets were physiaccly separated the width of the ring ... it worked - no twisted sheets, it also seemed to stop it getting caught on mast fittings ...... Later changed to two bowlines .....

I think that end of day .... each boat has its peculiar quirks and one method on one may not suit another .... my present boat the clew is so high cut that bangs on head are near unknown from the clew ... but if it was lower cut - then it certainly would be a danger ...
 
That's interesting, I didn't know that cats did that. I've got a similar arrangement consisting of a length of line tied between the mast and the hatch in front and going through a 2' length of 30mm drainpipe which acts as a roller. I fitted this mainly to stop the sheets dragging on mast cabling when tacking in light conditions. Looks a bit Heath Robinson but seems to work. I still get the odd sheet catch up on shrouds (see earlier post) and on mast / deck cleats though. (I do know about cleat boots but the commercial ones are too dear and I haven't got round yet to making my own...)
 
When I read this yesterday I couldn't quite visualise it. On re-reading it I think I do (amazing the benefit of a night's sleep!) If I understand correctly, you double the continuous sheet and stick about a foot of the doubled part through the clew cringle giving a loop. You then form the loop into a round turn, stick the two free ends through this, pull through all the slack and snug up the knot. Have I got it?

It sounds neat, and a lot less hassle than my thoughts on complicated siezings. Does it undo easily after loading?
 
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