As a change from Anchors ... Flag etiquette... ironmongery at the masthead....

A couple of the fancier yacht clubs are absolutely unbending on the requirement for burgees at the masthead, and their members find ways to achieve it despite modern gear. The two normal ones are a traditional style burgee staff but extra-long so that the flag sits above the gear, or a so-called "bishop's crook" which is a fixed pole or crane with a halyard block on the end, again higher than the masthead clutter.

The rest of us just hoist burgees to the starboard spreader, yes. When flying a courtesy flag I shift the burgee to port though I don't know if this is considered correct.

Pete
 
Minn said:
Bear with me - I am still converting from gaff cutters to boats that are only forty odd years old...

A boat with wind instruments at the masthead cannot very well "wear" a burgee there.

Does one wear the burgee at the starboard cross trees?
Click to expand...

All but a very few yacht clubs regard that as acceptable: it is now very much the norm. I actually quite like to be right about flags, but masthead burgees are a *****y nuisance if you have a Windex, anemometer and VHF aerial there.

Once you give up masthead burgee moving it to port is about all you can do if also flying a courtesy flag and you need the burgee to comply with special ensign rules.
 
Last edited:
It's no problem to wear a burgee at the masthead, even with a proliferation of stuff up there. My boat's got the standard tricolour/anchor light, VHF antenna, Windex, SeaMe active radar reflector, and wind direction/winspeed wand.

You just need to make a long enough pigstick, mine's about 5' long: A bamboo cane stolen from SWMBO's vegetable patch, a bit of wire begged from Fox's rig shop, a couple of penny washers and a self tapper epoxied into the end of the bamboo completes the job.

It does a fine job of keeping the starlings off too. Just don't have one of those plebian hook things as seen on some boats.:)
 
prv said:
A couple of the fancier yacht clubs are absolutely unbending on the requirement for burgees at the masthead, and their members find ways to achieve it despite modern gear.
Click to expand...

Who? I'm intrigued because the fanciest doesn't.
 
Elecglitch said:
Who? I'm intrigued because the fanciest doesn't.
Click to expand...

prv said:
The one that springs to mind is the Royal Thames, but I don't think they're alone.

Pete
Click to expand...

My understanding is the fanciest one does. (Or at least is very disapproving of its members who don't). I met one of its "junior" members (associate or whatever they call it) and he admitted that he often didn't fly/wear either the burgee or the ensign because getting the burgee to stay up top was a bit of a PITA.
 
Last edited:
Elecglitch said:
Who? I'm intrigued because the fanciest doesn't.
Click to expand...

The Royal Thames certainly does require the burgee to be flown from the masthead. A bye-law states "The Club Burgee shall be flown at the main masthead. Club Burgees shall never be flown from the spreaders, nor taped to rod rigging, nor shall they be flown with any other flag or pennant on the same halyard."
This certainly presents a challenge to owners of modern yachts, the Windex and the VHF aerials being the obvious dangers. It is quite surprising how much longer aerials are when you reach the masthead as compared to looking from deck level.
In my current 42 ft yacht, we have a three metre piece of forestay extrusion bolted to the side of the top of the mat. A signal halyard runs to a pulley at the top of this, so say two metres above the top of the mast. I then hoist the standard two metre bamboo pole with burgee attached to the top via some carefully bent fencing wire (the freedom to swivel is vital). The burgee then flies just above the VHF aerial, clear of everything except curious seagulls.
So why do we go though all this hassle?
By flying it from the top, a quick glance round any harbour will tell you if any of your friends are in, and where a cold beer or glass of wine might be cadged.
And it just looks so much better.

Pedant's note: our notes say that burgees are flown but ensigns are worn. Haven't a clue why the difference, but presumably some Navy chap will be along to explain why.

Peter
 
Elecglitch said:
Thanks for the reply - I've never liked the Royal Thames so that makes feel slightly justified. :D
Click to expand...

I am sorry that you have never liked the Royal Thames, I have found it a source of many enduring friendships and lots of varied yachting activity. Have you had much actual experience of the club or is this the view of an outsider looking in? PM me if you wish to speak freely.
Peter
 
MM5AHO said:
Surely an antenna that's up in the air is also aerial? I agree that not all antennae are aerial. And that aerial is an adjective not a noun.
Click to expand...


Aerial is a noun these days and has been for a long time but it's probably originally an abbreviation of "aerial something or other" I imagine. Whilst in RAF training I was taught by a civvie instructor that an antenna would only receive whilst an aerial would both transmit and receive so we spent the next few weeks saying radar aerial just to annoy him. He may have had a point but got it the wrong way round or something but the two terms have been interchangeable in my experience until you get to something like a parabolic reflector, at which point the whole thing was always referred to as either an antenna or an array. Technically array shouldn't be used unless it's a phased array or similar with multiple antenna elements (not array elements for some reason). The term antenna was often used to describe just the reflective dish, sometimes called an antenna array, whilst the the bit that actually transmitted the signal towards the dish to be reflected outwards was referred to as the antenna element. Sometime it included the receiver element and sometimes it didn't and the receiver element was named separately - never heard of a transmitter element though.

In short you can use any term to describe either function and not be wrong as the OED doesn't go into much detail and is not a scientific or technical dictionary anyway. Arthur C Clarke actually referred to a "radar aerial" on a few occasions I believe but radar was mostly bits of wire in those days anyway.

Never heard the term pigstick before, always just called it the burgee stick so that's today's thing learnt...
 
Elecglitch said:
Who? I'm intrigued because the fanciest doesn't.
Click to expand...

RYS does. Royal Thames does. I wonder who you mean?

I’m not in either but I like to fly the burgee from the masthead - it just looks right (which is why, and also because, it’s where burgees have been flown from since time immemorial) and it overcomes the otherwise impossible dilemma of insulting either your club or your host nation when sailing abroad. As it’s fairly unusual these days it’s a great way of identifying your boat in a crowded anchorage or marina. A long pole mounted at the masthead with a continuous line between a block at the top of it and one beside the boom enables easy hoisting to well above the instruments.

The Royal Thames has a good guide to various ways of doing it on their website. Let’s have a look - it’s downloadable here https://www.royalthames.com/Cruising-Events/Ensigns-and-Permits.aspx
 
BelleSerene said:
RYS does. Royal Thames does. I wonder who you mean?

I’m not in either but I like to fly the burgee from the masthead - it just looks right (which is why, and also because, it’s where burgees have been flown from since time immemorial) and it overcomes the otherwise impossible dilemma of insulting either your club or your host nation when sailing abroad. As it’s fairly unusual these days it’s a great way of identifying your boat in a crowded anchorage or marina. A long pole mounted at the masthead with a continuous line between a block at the top of it and one beside the boom enables easy hoisting to well above the instruments.

The Royal Thames has a good guide to various ways of doing it on their website. Let’s have a look - it’s downloadable here https://www.royalthames.com/Cruising-Events/Ensigns-and-Permits.aspx
Click to expand...

That is very helpful!

Being a traditionalist in sailing matters, I want to fly the burgee from the masthead if at all possible.
 
We have a very productive black bamboo in our garden. Lots of 4m and 5m canes available at reasonable prices.

Buyer collects! :rolleyes:
 
prv said:
The one that springs to mind is the Royal Thames, but I don't think they're alone.

Pete
Click to expand...


RNSA as well, I think.
I don't know if it is enshrined in their articles of war but certain members would take a very dim view of a boat without a burgee at the masthead.

PS,

Minn
I have been dying to ask.
I thought you had just bought an Ohlsen 38? And then, like a flash, you had bought a big Nicholson, is this right? Just asking out of curiosity and, if this is correct, deep respect :-)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top