Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thanes?

[Nick(2)]

Lock keepers friendly and helpful in the main. Locks being on self serve during busy periods is ridiculous. Some lock keepers work really hard to squeeze the last boat in and some don't seem to bother. Without wishing to cause offence I find the number of questionable live aboard type boats taking good mooring spots annoying and there doesn't seem to be any obvious regulation of this.

Also I hardly ever see any officials on patrol (actually once in two years) which seems a shame.

We see too many instances of speeding and excess wash. This has ranged between being extremely selfish to dangerous. It feels like a free for all at times.

We are enjoying the river again but would very much like to see more staff out and about.

Just my thoughts...

 

[oldgit]

Presume that the amount of taxpayers cash being spent on the Thames/Medway has already been decided for the next few years and not likely to change in the near future.
Assuming that DEFRA holds the purse strings and doles out the funds to EA, what practical suggestions does the forum have for persuading DEFRA to simply provide more money to EA for waterways.

 

[boatone]

Presume that the amount of taxpayers cash being spent on the Thames/Medway has already been decided for the next few years and not likely to change in the near future.
Assuming that DEFRA holds the purse strings and doles out the funds to EA, what practical suggestions does the forum have for persuading DEFRA to simply provide more money to EA for waterways.

As it is clear that significant public purse funding will NOT be the the way forward you are asking the wrong question.

 

[oldgit]

As it is clear that significant public purse funding will NOT be the the way forward you are asking the wrong question.

Without going over old ground, how exactly can you enable more money to be gathered from any source not required to contribute at the present time , given that the EA is not allowed by the current rules ? to raise funds by anything other than registration fees.
It must surely involve changing the rules, presume only DEFRA can do this arbitarily or must even they get legislation through the house to do so.
Is arguing about just how well/badly the Thames is run, really akin to rearranging the deck chairs and lobbying really needs to be directed by all Thames boaters at DEFRA and HMG for fundamental change. ?
The first glimpse of hope might be the appearance of money for managing the countryside for public good.

 

[boatone]

Without going over old ground, how exactly can you enable more money to be gathered from any source not required to contribute at the present time , given that the EA is not allowed by the current rules ? to raise funds by anything other than registration fees.
They also raise some monies from water extraction and miscellaneous charges such as moorings (bas and transit), camp sites, accommodations etc. but its fairly small beer compared to registration income.

It must surely involve changing the rules, presume only DEFRA can do this arbitarily or must even they get legislation through the house to do so.
Any substantial changes would need either primary or secondary legislation. The last major change was the Inland Waterways Order 2010 which took many years to grind its way through the system.
The amount of money allocated to the waterways by DEFRA id decided by the spending reviews which ultimately rests with the Treasury.

Is arguing about just how well/badly the Thames is run, really akin to rearranging the deck chairs and lobbying really needs to be directed by all Thames boaters at DEFRA and HMG for fundamental change. ?
In part but with £8 million or so in the current budget theres also the question of how effectively it is spent. A lot off money from the navigation budget is currently being consumed by action to try and control the slum boats and illegal mooring issues which are not, strictly speaking, navigation issues.

The first glimpse of hope might be the appearance of money for managing the countryside for public good.
It would be nice to think there would be a change of heart but even a change of heart is likely to take a long time to filter through to the coal face.

Bottom line seems to be that we have to recognise changing circumstances and boaters need to come to terms with the real cost of services. Watch this space re possible imposition of accommodation charges in offline marinas although signs are that will be vigorously resisted by the commercial operators.
Wearing my TMBA hat I am taking the simple approach of not supporting any changes that would increase the burden on boaters unless, and until, the EA present clear and practical proposals for future funding.

Been said before but worth repeating ...... do you honestly think joe public cares a jot about subsidising apparently well heeled boaters with posh boats ?

 

[Aquafan]

Please can you explain "Watch this space re possible imposition of accommodation charges in offline marinas"
With thanks

 

[oldgit]

Please can you explain "Watch this space re possible imposition of accommodation charges in offline marinas"
With thanks

On the tidal Medway any fixed pile or anchor placed in/on the bottom must have permission (and a fee is levied) from the organisations who regulate that particular bit of river.
Not sure if the EA down here also have the power to raise revenue on accomodations in non tidal section.Many of the houses on the river bank have small jetties and pontoons with moored boats.
Do know that they were entering marinas to check boats had valid registration documents.
A boat is moored just above weir at Allington with a large EA "For Sale" notice ,the attached outboard does not look very old at all.

 

[boatone]

Please can you explain "Watch this space re possible imposition of accommodation charges in offline marinas"
With thanks

On the non tidal Thames an “accommodation” is any structure in the river - piles, jetty, pontoon- to which a boat can be moored.
All accommodations are subject to an annual registration charge just like boats. Online marinas I.e those on the main river pay these charges for their piles and pontoons. Now that the EA have established their right to charge registration charges for craft in all marinas there is an expectation that they will move to charge for pontoons in the marinas as well. Should this materialise, any such charges will inevitably be passed on to the boat owners. We understand that the EA are already in discussion with marina operators - watch this space !

 

[oldgit]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

Peel Ports will rent you a small portion of the river bed to lay a mooring for around £120.PA.
Imagine that any non tidal "accomodation" charges would amount to less than a few pounds a month per boat. ?

 

[boatone]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

Peel Ports will rent you a small portion of the river bed to lay a mooring for around £120.PA.
Imagine that any non tidal "accomodation" charges would amount to less than a few pounds a month per boat. ?

From EA Website:
Charges increased by 5.7% for the year ending 28 September 2019.

This tariff applies to all licences granted to corporate bodies of any kind (commercial companies, hotels, schools, yacht clubs, youth groups, residents associations etc).
[TABLE="width: 712"]
[TR]
[TH]Accommodation type[/TH]
[TH]Standard annual charge (£)[/TH]
[TH]Minimum charge per item (£)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Staging, steps, gangway, ladder, catwalk, framework, pontoon, slipway, boathouse, or other enclosure of river space per square metre[/TD]
[TD]9.00 per square metre[/TD]
[TD]95.90[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]plus linear metre of mooring edge thereto[/TD]
[TD]8.04 per metre[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Off shore mooring piles or buoys (charged according to linear metres of moorings run accommodated)[/TD]
[TD]8.04 per metre[/TD]
[TD]95.90[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rubbing posts or miscellaneous piles[/TD]
[TD]31.16[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Slipways and footbridges[/TD]
[TD]71.92[/TD]
[TD]n/a[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[FONT=&quot]Minimum Total Charge
As well as a flat-rate minimum charge per item as shown above there is also a minimum total charge applicable to each licence after taking into account any adjustment above. The minimum total charge is currently £95.90 for those accommodations of an educational or sporting nature and £153.43 in all other cases.

I'll leave someone else to do the maths ![/FONT]

 

[oldgit]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

Basically a case getting a tape out and measuring all the pontoons/counting the piles and then dividing that by the number of berths ?
Unless of course the marinas add "a little something" to cover the costs of getting out their gold plated tape measure ?....and how about the houses with jetties at the end of the gardens,that certainly should provide a very useful contribution to Thames funding.

 

[Chris_d]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

?....and how about the houses with jetties at the end of the gardens,that certainly should provide a very useful contribution to Thames funding.

Yes they all pay for their accommodations which makes the previous non payment by Marinas so unfair.

Actually I think the whole acccomdation charge thing is archaic, we pay the minimum £95 for 4 posts on the edge of the bank, only taking up a few square inches of river! Not exactly what the charges were originaly intended for which is large piles or trots in the navigation for commercial barges etc.. to tie to. But hey ho if we have to pay then the same rule should apply to all.

 

[Old Crusty]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

Basically a case getting a tape out and measuring all the pontoons/counting the piles and then dividing that by the number of berths ?
Unless of course the marinas add "a little something" to cover the costs of getting out their gold plated tape measure ?....and how about the houses with jetties at the end of the gardens,that certainly should provide a very useful contribution to Thames funding.

Them with pontoons and landing stages were checked about 5 years ago for the first time in decades. Some hadn't paid for so long they are still negotiating the fees but in the end it's small beer compared to what's needed. Those of us in marinas will end up paying via our berthing fees.

 

[No Regrets]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

Unhappy with the EA handing out my personal details illegally to District Enforcement, and then bluffing a pack of lies to me over many emails, despite their own GDPR statement stating it wouldn't do that.

Not too pleased with the influx of Barges and Narrow boats annihillating the unkempt and precarious mooring spaces while prices go up.

Chandleries disappearing galore, due to not keeping up with online pricing, their moorings being full of dumped boats and not stocking the right stuff.

Locks poorly manned, and Assistant lockies grabbing my lines or boat and dragging, fenders riding up, down the lock (improved recently)

The ATYC as pathetic as ever do absolutely nothing while the TMBA just make a lot of useless huffing and puffing noise to gain attention and the River Thames Alliance just donate their defunct directors to run hideous mooring companies...


Boat now for sale, goodbye and good luck :encouragement:

 

[oldgit]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

Boat now for sale, goodbye and good luck :encouragement:

Hotel Thames.

Eagles


On a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air
Up ahead in the distance, I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim
I had to stop for the night.
There she stood in the doorway;
I heard the mission bell
And I was thinking to myself
'This could be heaven or this could be Hell'
Then she lit up a candle and she showed me the way
There were voices down the corridor,
I thought I heard them say
Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face.
Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year (any time of year) you can find it here

Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends
She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends
How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat
Some dance to remember, some dance to forget
So I called up the Captain,
'Please bring me my wine'
He said, 'we haven't had that spirit here since nineteen sixty-nine'
And still those voices are calling from far away,
Wake you up in the middle of the night
Just to hear them say"
Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely face.
They livin' it up at the Hotel California
What a nice surprise (what a nice surprise), bring your alibis
Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, 'we are all just prisoners here, of our own device'
And in the master's chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

The world changes and eventually so will the Thames, which should be there for all, not just the few.
You will be back





.

 

[No Regrets]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

I will be all around Europe and the UK either by Caravan or Motorhome. Caravan arrives in a few days, will see how it goes before keeping or changing!

Used to have both a few years ago. :encouragement:

I'm keeping a tender and outboard for lakes rivers and coastal fun however

 

[oldgit]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

I will be all around Europe and the UK either by Caravan or Motorhome. Caravan arrives in a few days, will see how it goes before keeping or changing!

Used to have both a few years ago. :encouragement:

I'm keeping a tender and outboard for lakes rivers and coastal fun however

Half of RCC have a motorhome tucked away somewhere, as time passes it seems the motorhome does take priority.
Common sense would suggest that the boat should be sold but some are simply left to moulder and slowly turn green on the pontoons.

 

[No Regrets]

Re: Are you satisfied with the management of non tidal Thames?

Shes absolutely sparkling, and way better than when you last saw her, having had a considerable amount of work and money invested. Couldn't leave her to rot :disgust: