Are sailors with smaller boats better yachtsmen

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Daydream believer

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Doing the round England bit SH last year in a 31 ft boat i was surprised by the large number of single handers in boats that were much smaller than mine
In talking to them i began to have a lot of respect for some of them
For instance - i went from Newlyn to Milford Haven in one 24 hour leg & in reasonable comfort. Apart from around lands end i did not have to worry much about tides or even weather
Another sailor in a 20 ft bilge keeler took 10 days because he had to sail all around the edge of the Bristol channel
He had to work the tides, he had to plan his departures & finishes to suit the places he went. He had to work the weather because he could not make good progress to windward. He had to survive in a fairly small space & activities such as using the loo had to be planned carefully
All in all i began to think he was a much better sailor than me. & there are loads of these blokes putting themselves through hell & loving every minute of it( well almost)
 
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Most sailors are better than me full stop.
Forget all this seaman like stuff and give me technology any day.
I love my chart plotter, AIS, auto pilot, electric winches, bow thrusters and radar.
Yes they are better sailors but I can put the kettle on more times than them and strain less brain cells in doing so.
 
I have seen some atrocious sailing and incompetence in all sizes of boat, so no, I couldn't agree with "Are sailors with smaller boats better yachtsmen". It does take commitment and skill to sail a small boat, as demonstrated in your examples above, where a larger boat may just punch the tide with the engine. If anything it takes a certain amount of tenacity to manage a small yacht for long periods that sailors of larger yachts don't necessarily need, or perhaps more to the point, develop. There are plenty of larger yacht sailors, who manage their boats by the wind and tide and don't just reach for the donk when it is convenient.
 
The old adage " The smaller the boat the more fun the person is having " is pretty true IMHO. But it does rather set against the ability to go further with more apparent certainty that more size and length appears to give.
 
seumask said:
The old adage " The smaller the boat the more fun the person is having " is pretty true IMHO. But it does rather set against the ability to go further with more apparent certainty that more size and length appears to give.
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Exactly what my wife says...
 
Is someone who takes 10 times longer to do a trip a better sailor than you? Could they do the trip in your boat as well as you did? They are probably singlehanded because there isn't room for anyone else on board if the have to carry 10 days worth of provisions for everyone one day trip... ;)
 
I've sailed small boats, medium sized boats and big boats.

In general I've had the most fun on the 35-40 foot boats. But then I think it's also down to what you get out of sailing. To me a big part of the fun of sailing is the teamwork part. You don't get that so much in small boats. And I've found you do the most sailing in cruising trim in a medium sized boat as it'll make progress in light winds, even against some tide and yet still be capable of heading out when the wind is hitting a 6 or 7. And putting up the sails in a mid 30 footer is a relatively small task, so you still do it, even over short distances that you might asses as not worth it in a mid 40 footer.

As to the seamanship thing - I don't think it's better, just different. Different aspects of seamanship become important with different boats. With a small boat tidal planning and weather awareness take on even more important status, whereas the boathandling part of seamanship is less important as you can generally outmuscle a small boat if you need to. On a bigger boat you might get away with punching some tide, but mess up coming alongside and you can't just grab the pontoon and hang on.
 
flaming said:
As to the seamanship thing - I don't think it's better, just different. Different aspects of seamanship become important with different boats. With a small boat tidal planning and weather awareness take on even more important status, whereas the boathandling part of seamanship is less important as you can generally outmuscle a small boat if you need to. On a bigger boat you might get away with punching some tide, but mess up coming alongside and you can't just grab the pontoon and hang on.
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+1
 
HHMMMM! Referring to length, woman say about it that's its not the size that matters but how you use it!
but do you believe them?
 
pathfinderstu said:
HHMMMM! Referring to length, woman say about it that's its not the size that matters but how you use it!
but do you believe them?
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I think you'll find that what they actually say is that it isn't the LWL, but the beam that counts.... :D

W.r.t the original question - no - I don't believe the standards of seamanship are size dependant, but I really can't beat flamings definition "Different aspects of seamanship become important with different boats"....
 
As I think has been alluded to, smaller boats require a slightly different approach and technique to being sailed. They are generally much. More forgiving and easier to handle. They're more manuverable and the loads are lighter so mistakes are less likely to break and damage things so you can carry out manuvers that you might not consider in a larger yacht.

Because of this it is possible that sailing a smaller boat can make you a better sailor, but it certainly doesn't mean you are one.
 
I've definitely learned a lot from sailing a 24-footer for three years. But I don't think that means either that everyone in a small boat is a good sailor (I've seen some rubbish ones :) ) or that people in big boats aren't good sailors.

I'd certainly agree that different sizes of boat emphasise different things.

The fact that KS is gaff rigged has also taught me things. In particular about fore-and-aft sail balance - you can't ignore this when you have a jib on a bowsprit six feet ahead of the boat, and a mizzen on a bumkin three feet astern.

Pete
 
I have tried 30' and 22' boats as owner, and a lot of other larger jobs as crew.

As I usually sail with one friend or my girlfriend 22' does us very well, she ( the boat, sadly ) is responsive and we can tuck into corners in marinas or town quays etc, the lifting keel helps a lot too.

When I started sailing it was a fair bet when one came across someone on a larger boat that they had worked their way up from dinghies through smaller cruisers; sadly this is no longer the case and they may well be bumbling idiots like I was when starting !

Sailing a smaller boat properly in a seamanlike manner nowadays takes just a fraction more organisation than a boat one can do handstands in, it's down to the individual skippers' attitude; so no, boat size now has no relation to sailing ability.

Personally I'd quibble about the 10 day difference quoted though, more like the odd hour.
 
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Seajet said:
Personally I'd quibble about the 10 day difference quoted though, more like the odd hour.
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There you go again - arguing for the sake of it

He did not do a straight 100 odd miles but broke the journey into a number of small coastal hops around the perimeter. Allowing for waiting for weather conditions & suitable tides etc. then 10 days is quite understandable
Another chap went from Peterhead to Eyemouth & went in & out of the firth of Fourth. Are you going to debate that as well?
At the end of the day that was not the point of the thread. It was only an example.
I was asking if others felt like me that a small boat sailor has to have greater skills than the norm
The general opinion is ( or seems to be) that they do not, but that it is more a different skill set. Fair comment i suppose
Go on -- now get the hump:):)
 
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I would also agree that boat size has nothing to do with sailing ability.

However i will say that being an owner of a 23 ft offshore capable Westerly that turns up at all kinds of far flung shores the amount of respect your afforded is incredible. People are shocked to find youve sailed all that way in a tiny boat. Whereas big boats ...its sort of expected....its an everyday occurance, do the same massive voyage in a little boat and a huge amount of respect comes your way. and friends, people who just stop. look your boat up and down then blurt out " how the hell did you get that here".. is the usual comment. To which i reply "That" is a westerley and is indeed built like the proverbial and sails surprisingly well !
 
Daydream believer said:
There you go again - arguing for the sake of it

He did not do a straight 100 odd miles but broke the journey into a number of small coastal hops around the perimeter. Allowing for waiting for weather conditions & suitable tides etc. then 10 days is quite understandable
Another chap went from Peterhead to Eyemouth & went in & out of the firth of Fourth. Are you going to debate that as well?
At the end of the day that was not the point of the thread. It was only an example.
I was asking if others felt like me that a small boat sailor has to have greater skills than the norm
The general opinion is ( or seems to be) that they do not, but that it is more a different skill set. Fair comment i suppose
Go on -- now get the hump:):)
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Daydream,

no hump, I was merely thinking that the quoted 10 days for a smaller boat as opposed to 1 day for the OP seems a bit odd.

My meagre 22' averaged 7 knots from Guernsey to Salcombe, so I go along with the theory the chap with the smaller boat going across the Bristol Channel was taking the chance to visit places along the route; so the comparison of journey times is pretty unfair / irrelevant.
 
Seajet said:
Daydream,

no hump, I was merely thinking that the quoted 10 days for a smaller boat as opposed to 1 day for the OP seems a bit odd.

My meagre 22' averaged 7 knots from Guernsey to Salcombe, so I go along with the theory the chap with the smaller boat going across the Bristol Channel was taking the chance to visit places along the route; so the comparison of journey times is pretty unfair / irrelevant.
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As I understood it the chap with the small boat HAD to go around the edge. (the OP's phrase) Presumably he didn't feel his boat was suitable for the direct route. Therefore he was committed to more difficult planning over a 10 day period, involving many tidal calculations etc.
Whereas the chap with the larger boat sailed merrily across the open sea, involving much less planning.

So the OP felt that the restrictions imposed on the smaller boat meant his level of seamanship was necessarily higher. We could of course debate the original point of whether the small boat sailor was right to limit himself, but there are plenty of other circumstances I can think of where more careful planning would have to be done by a smaller, slower, boat so the overall scenario remains valid.

Hope that helps!
 
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