Are paper charts still necessary and relevant?

[Tender_aft]

Decided to start the thread for you

Having been navigating at night and lost our electronics in the Gibraltar straight a few months ago, I say that paper charts and preplanning on them is still necessary.

Also, it makes you sit down and fully explain where you are going to your crew. Sitting in front of a plotter tends to be a solitary exercise.

 

[oGaryo]

Decided to start the thread for you

Having been navigating at night and lost our electronics in the Gibraltar straight a few months ago, I say that paper charts and preplanning on them is still necessary.

Also, it makes you sit down and fully explain where you are going to your crew. Sitting in front of a plotter tends to be a solitary exercise.

Here's a question, given the availability of the likes of the Kindle and other such electronic devices that make viewing electronic media akin to paper format coupled with the undeniable benefits that electronics bring to planning, what in this day and age do paper charts bring to the table for passage planning and pilotage other than that already mentioned i.e. a last gasp cumbersome tool for use once in a very blue moon and to put on top of the helm position to supplement the plotter (not tuther way around). I realise it's each to their own but even when sitting in the dazed kipper classroom, I found myself asking why am I being asked to use these antiquated tools and methods. May I ask if you'd still have used the charts in Gib if say, you'd planned your passage on the PC or IPAD? If so, why?

To reiterate, I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just trying to understand why? I am ignorant after all, apparently

 

[Elessar]

Decided to start the thread for you

Having been navigating at night and lost our electronics in the Gibraltar straight a few months ago, I say that paper charts and preplanning on them is still necessary.

Also, it makes you sit down and fully explain where you are going to your crew. Sitting in front of a plotter tends to be a solitary exercise.

most definately yes.

not only a safety back up, but the only real way to plan a long passage and do a course to steer over multiple hours.

And its more fun too. I make sure I regularly go out with the plotter off, so I don't go rusty.

 

[Elessar]

Here's a question, given the availability of the likes of the Kindle and other such electronic devices that make viewing electronic media akin to paper format coupled with the undeniable benefits that electronics bring to planning, what in this day and age do paper charts bring to the table for passage planning and pilotage other than that already mentioned i.e. a last gasp cumbersome tool for use once in a very blue moon and to put on top of the helm position to supplement the plotter (not tuther way around). I realise it's each to their own but even when sitting in the dazed kipper classroom, I found myself asking why am I being asked to use these antiquated tools and methods. May I ask if you'd still have used the charts in Gib if say, you'd planned your passage on the PC or IPAD? If so, why?

To reiterate, I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just trying to understand why? I am ignorant after all, apparently

how do you do a multiple hour course to steer on a plotter?

 

[Tender_aft]

When they make IP67 tablets with a 48 hour battery, the same size as a paper chart I will agree with you. Being able to spread it out and see it all at once is another reason I like it. Getting your bearings on a paper chart in a rough sea is much easier than trying to press the correct buttons on a plotter.

(I should add that my day job is 100% virtual for the last 18 years)

 

[oGaryo]

how do you do a multiple hour course to steer on a plotter?

I presume you can't (never tried) but I also presume you can on a PC, IPAD etc given it's nothing more than a representation of a paper chart in its most basic form. Is it not possible to do so and transfer it to the plotter leaving the PC as a backup should the plotter fail? have you tried?

 

[Elessar]

I presume you can't (never tried) but I also presume you can on a PC, IPAD etc given it's nothing more than a representation of a paper chart in its most basic form. Is it not possible to do so and transfer it to the plotter leaving the PC as a backup should the plotter fail? have you tried?

short of drawing on the screen with a marker pen, I don't know how to do it on a PC. Or ipad.

 

[oGaryo]

Being able to spread it out and see it all at once is another reason I like it.

now that I agree with but still a supplement to the plotter or other electronic device imo. it's the plotting (writing it down) on paper bit that I have issue with... for now, until someone is able to sell me the idea of why it's worth the effort in doing so

 

[oGaryo]

short of drawing on the screen with a marker pen, I don't know how to do it on a PC. Or ipad.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dighigh.app.coursetosteer&hl=en_GB

 

[NorthUp]

Try updating chart detail on a plotter, for free, with a pen.

 

[Elessar]

now that I agree with but still a supplement to the plotter or other electronic device imo. it's the plotting (writing it down) on paper bit that I have issue with... for now, until someone is able to sell me the idea of why it's worth the effort in doing so

I agree I use the plotter as primary nav for short passages. As it get slightly longer, I just write down lat/long every 1/2 hour so I can revert to paper, I don't keep it up to date.
I still don't know how to plan a long passage (properly) without paper though.

 

[Elessar]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dighigh.app.coursetosteer&hl=en_GB

Completely pointless.
For a short journey, put a waypoint in the plotter and select track on the autopilot. CTS automatically calculated. That's all the app can do, you then have to type the answer it gives into the pilot and press auto instead.

Show me how the app works for a passage >1 hr.

 

[oGaryo]

show me how it works for a passage >1 hr.

never used it Mark, all I can do is cut and paste one of the comments that suggests it's possible:

Must have for tidal sailing Very useful app. The gives the same result as if you put the tide vector on paper chart but much quicker and easier (on moving boat)

Awesome app This is an extremely useful app for all long haul boaters. Or even just to learn more about boating

it's irrelevant really as this is just one example, the process of calculating and documenting the output of those calculation is what computers are good at. if an app isn't available now, it'd be possible to create one for sure

 

[MapisM]

Having been navigating at night and lost our electronics in the Gibraltar straight a few months ago

How come? In my boat, the electronics are securely bolted to the dashboard, can't imagine how I could loose them...

I still find this done to death debate quite entertaining, in the 21st century.
Surely all those who think paper is still necessary have never used a jetliner for their trips, and never will?

 

[Tender_aft]

now that I agree with but still a supplement to the plotter or other electronic device imo. it's the plotting (writing it down) on paper bit that I have issue with... for now, until someone is able to sell me the idea of why it's worth the effort in doing so

Nobody has to sell it to you....but one day you will be in a situation when you realise why. (I have probably done less boating than you, but I happened to already meet that situation.)

 

[Elessar]

How come? In my boat, the electronics are securely bolted to the dashboard, can't imagine how I could loose them...

I still find this done to death debate quite entertaining, in the 21st century.
Surely all those who think paper is still necessary have never used a jetliner for their trips, and never will?

you don't have tides. Answer my question about course to steer.........

 

[Elessar]

never used it Mark, all I can do is cut and paste one of the comments that suggests it's possible:





it's irrelevant really as this is just one example, the process of calculating and documenting the output of those calculation is what computers are good at. if an app isn't available now, it'd be possible to create one for sure

you asked if paper was still necessary, and I said its the only way I know of properly planning a long journey. The fact that someone might invent something in the future isn't relevant surely?

 

[Elessar]

never used it Mark, all I can do is cut and paste one of the comments that suggests it's possible:





it's irrelevant really as this is just one example, the process of calculating and documenting the output of those calculation is what computers are good at. if an app isn't available now, it'd be possible to create one for sure

I'm looking at it a bit more. Not only is it only capable of doing up to 1 hr, it potentially gets that wrong.
You have to input deviation to get the answer. You can't know what your deviation is until you know your course to steer, but it gets you to fill it in upfront.
Flawed therefore, what else does it do wrong?

 

[MapisM]

you don't have tides. Answer my question about course to steer.........

After you'll tell me if you ever used airplanes.
Or if you'd rather die than use a pacemaker, if and when you should face the choice.
And so forth...

 

[Elessar]

After you'll tell me if you ever used airplanes.
Or if you'd rather die than use a pacemaker, if and when you should face the choice.
And so forth...

that's daft mapis. Of course i use planes.
You are arguing the redundancy point, and it's a little bit silly to suggest most boats have the redundancy that planes do.
But more than that it's wrong to say a plotter can do an accurate course to steer on a boat, unless you know better, if so please enlighten me.