are logs actually sh*t?

tcm

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The log that measures how far you have travelled I mean. in ragboating these are relied upon as though they are 100% accurate: "...and the log now read 8.2 so having travelled in z direction and allowing for the tide of x knots in y direction and the leeway means your estimated position is here" say the rya exams.

But in a powerboat most mechancial means of finding the speed are miles out. I don't think I've ever been on a powerboat where the thing was within 10%. One or two read "error" and some said "88.8". I think mine occassionaly read 00.0 and then woke up to say 15ish knot regardless of how fast your went. These days, i just use a stack of gps's. And i have a better idea of the speed from engine revs: the clever people who do timed log rallies also rely on engine revcounters, not paddlewheel speed instruments.

Presumably if the speed reading is wrong then the log is junk too - it must use the same wheel thingy to add up how long you have been travelling at what speeds.

Ergo, do the nav before setting off on paper. Then verify calculated SOG with GPS. Verify actually location with GPS too. have a spare gps and another if you must. Keep a note of speed from engine revs. To be non-gps-dependent, build up a good record of what engine revs under what conditions mean what speeds - much more relaible than paddlewheel.

Shouldn't we ignore the stupid mechanical speed devices. Indeed, should we question any fool who insists upon using such dangerous devices which require that you have a walloping great 2inch hole drilled into the bottom of the boat which is plugged by a dodgy bit of plastic and an o-ring or two?





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hlb

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You need to get a better boat. Mucky Farters speedy thingy is very accurate. Dont know about the log thingy though, maybe it's broke or I pressed the wrong button, but anyway I dont use it, so no bother. Need speedy thingy though cos writting is in big numbers, where as plotter numbers, you have to squint for and go down stairs. Yes you definatly need a new boat.../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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Re: maybe

ours was reading 25% high, but the have a fudge factor, so you can calibrate them against a GPS. Ours now agrees with the GPS to within 5% or so over a long run (or one done in opposite directions, to take out the tidal bit).

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jfm

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logs are actually covered in sh*t?

I agree. Worse still, imho you cannot even calibrate a log against gps because the error is different every day. When arrive at boat after 3 weeks none use log is slimed up and reads 0 till flushed out by boat movement then wham it reads 20 knots. Other times it reads 25% low. Then the diver who cleans the props kindly cleans it and it's reading 100% again

There are new optical logs now wiv no paddle wheel. They sort of see particles and tiny bubbles in the water passing by and compute speed nicely. Still work if gunged up a bit. They sound good.

Some ragboats are inconsistent. They scorn GPS and prefer paper chart and EP. Becos you can't trust computers, they might break. So they compute EP using... their log. Which is an lectronic device with a microchip or three inside it. Ahem. At least with GPS they're tenapenny so you have lots, whereas how many paper/pencil navigator EP people have multiple logs? Or even optical logs.

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lanason

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Not only boats.

Used my GPS in the car to measure speed and log

Car says 87 mph GPS says 70 mph
Car says 112 miles GPS says 100.

and we thort automotive technology was good !!

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hlb

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I've been to Plymouth in three different cars. One says its 98 miles, one said it was 128 miles. My car says it's 106.

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jfm

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I think your speedo is illegal and bust, or your GPS gave a duff reading. Car speedos must overread a bit, in mine the GPS says 67 when the speedo says 70

To test the car, drive at 87 past a gatso. If it flashes you will be sent a letter saying you were doing 87, and you will know the speedo is OK. This calibration service costs £60 and you get 3 nectar points

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hlb

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Why would I want to start in Accrington /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

But if for some mad reason I was to start from that acursed place. The distance would not be that much out. Less course, if your a clever sod and using an auto route thingy wot dont know the bloody way../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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Haydn
 
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Thats why your 60mph on a single lane road constantly holds me up. Now I know why so many idiots cruise at 50 in a 60 limit. Or at 60 in the overtaking lane on a motorway.

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MainlySteam

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I am like most people - the faster the log thinks I am going the more accurate I think the log is.

John

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ari

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Be interested to know what sort of car it is that reads 87mph at 70mph. I only ask cos a long long time ago I had a Ford Orion (I know I know...!) and that had a wildly over optimistic speedo. Used to think it was a really fast car to begin with, the way it would cruise effortlessly at 100mph, along with all the other cars, and the coaches, oh, and the lorries.... Ho hum.

Ari.

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Steve_D

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On your GPS you will get an error going up and down hills cos the SOG is measured over a theoretical flat plane. On a long boring journey once my mate amused himself by trying to work out the angle of the hill from the difference between the car and GPS readings.

Steve D

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lanason

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Its my company car - X reg Renault Scenic. Got to give it back in a few weeks.

Actually not a bad car - 2.0 leather seats, all the goodies but only 5 seats - if they make one with 7 - i.e. a baby espace then it would sell well. May be take some sales away from espace but more than make up for it.

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lanason

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mmm - very good point - that particular route is quite hilly. I'll try it on the flat ...

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kindredspirit

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Re: logs are actually covered in sh*t?

I'm thinking of changing next winter to an optical log.

Fed up with the paddlewheel gunging up but need a log just in case the whole GPS system goes down.

Are Echo Pilot the only ones doing them?

.

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tcm

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Insignificant cosines for SteveD\'s mate

Well, fraid that must've been very boring indeed, and the hilliness makes almost no difference at all. Here's why.

Take a 1 in 10 hill x-section. vertical is 1, horizontal is 10, so hypotenuse is (from pythagoras) length sqrt of 101. So the hypotenuse is 10.05. So the road is only 1.005 times longer than a perfectly flat road becasue of the hill. Or, instead of doing 30 mph, he's really doing 29.85 mph.

On a 1 in5, the hypotuse is only 1.02 times longer than the horizontal vector. So instead of 30mph, the car is doing 29.4 mph on the horizontal.

if you DO notice a difference - time to get worried. For example, spose there was 10% difference between a totally accurate gps and a totally accurate speedo. This means that you'd do 11 metres (say) up a hill for every 10 travelled horizontally. Pythag shows the height is 4.5 metres, meaning that the hill is approaching a 1 in 2 so you aren't on the road. arg.

I-Spy, anyone? and is lanason measuring knots instead of statute miles?


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jfm

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GPS trig error

I think that's wrong, unless it's crud old GPS software. The GPS calculates altitude, ie a 3D position fix. It then computes distance and time between 2 fixes. The speed is therefore correct. The only source of trigonometry error is if your travelling on a curve. I mean a tight curve, not the curve of the earth's surface (HLB ignore that comment, the earth is flat :)
 

lanason

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Re: Insignificant cosines for SteveD\'s mate

Time to go find the GPS and check ....................now where did I leave it ??

found the GPS ... err no batteries - KIDS ...... where have ..........


<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>More Pics of Kelisha</A> /forums/images/icons/smile.gif<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by lanason on 07/09/2003 17:54 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
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