Are Ben/Jen/Bavs really all that bad?

[twodragons]

Hi folks, myself and a mate are looking about at post yr2000 40-45 footers, which are comfy cruisers for 2 to 4 and capable of taking us out of the med, and handling some potentially rougher seas (around uk waters).

Now, our price limit, as we are paid in dollars (hellish) has dropped to about 85 - 90,000 GBP, so this is AWB territory. Are AWBs so bad? We want a boat wich will look ok, keep us alive in the comfort needed of early thirtysomethings, used to roughing it, and wanting to see the world a bit more. How much of the bad stuff i hear about the likes of Bavaria 44s and SO 45.2s is a bit of snobbery, if any?

After a couple of years or so, i'd like to think they'd still be afloat, at least, despite us, and not have lost too much value. We're willing to make the upkeep effort, etc.

Thoughts, please. I know this is an old question line, but i'm sure it's important to many people.

In addition, as our first boat, essentially for two, are we starting too big/ambitious?

Thanks for all.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

They're not bad at all. They are designed for a purpose to a budget price and they perform well. However, if your main purpose is to cross oceans you'd obviously be better off looking for something designed specifically for the job.

 

[Talbot]

All boats are designed as a compromise between a number of factors. IMHO the Ben/Jen/Bavs are designed for decent accomodation and good fair weather performance. The bad weather performance is the area that suffers, with a flat bottom forward of the keel, they tend to pound badly when trying to go to windward in bad seas. I have heard that this pounding can get so bad that the interior furnishings suffer.

Personally I dont reckon they have enough hulls to be decent boats, but again that is purely my preference. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tcm]

Re: No, not that bad

two years is a very limited outlook!

Loads of these go transatlantic etc etc so they work as boats. So although not incapable I don't think it's too disputed that benjenbavs don't use the uutterly most luvverly or long-lasting materials in all respects - but then at the price, if it lasts half as long you're still ahead- cos some similar-sized boats cost a few times the price.

Engineering-wise vloume production does give good repeatability and cheaper spares, so as long as you keep on tiop of things it should be ok. It seems rare (although given their volume) tho not completely unknown for dangerousness to result from the manufacturing process. I mean, we haven't had loads of comments here nor in the mags.

I think Nicho tells of a storm in which the AWB he was on suffered damage - but then so did an Oyster costing loads more loot. Sheer weightiness of construction isn't always an advantage, at least, not in all parts of a boat (or other manufactured product). So, if you like it, i'd buy it.

 

[Stingo]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I dont reckon they have enough hulls to be decent boats

[/ QUOTE ]

There are only three types of boat: A cat, half a cat and a cat and a half.

 

[Stingo]

I've just crossed the pond in a 16 yr old ben and would do it again

 

[StugeronSteve]

Have a look around and make up your own mind. Go and view a few well used examples and see how they have coped. "Quality" boats develop faults and some of the manufacturers are not as ready, as their French counterparts, to offer help to their out of warranty owners.

As to whether a >40' boat is being ambitious, only you know.

 

[jasu74]

Do I remember right when I say that Beneteau 44.7 is the boat of the year 2005 at cruiser/raser class? so it can't be that bad /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have a bavaria 35 match and I have to say that it is very easily driven hull and can't say anything bad from it yet.

 

[tcm]

Re: 45 footer first off

i bouight a 48footer as first boat and recommend it. The idea that a 30something boat is much much easier than a 40something is a fallacy imho. Cos anything bigger than a car is well, big anyway. Big boats have more windage but MUCH more stability than small ones, they get better and proportionaly bigger berths, and the roominess makes it all worhwhile rather than make it all a flippin squeeze. Praps get instructory help when you take delivery to build confidence

 

[BlueSkyNick]

[quote

There are only three types of boat: A cat, half a cat and a cat and a half.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blimey, you really are converted, aren't you! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif You might want to seek help from a hypnotist, publican, or similar.

 

[Guest]

See thread "New boat, crack" on PBO forum /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

My impression is that at least some of the BenJenBavs can handle quite rough weather if they're over 40ft. Much shorter than that and they struggle. By quite rough I'm thinking of something like a F8. By "handle it" I mean still have the option of making reasonable ground to windward.

That impression is based partly on observing other boats while out sailing - whether they seem to be struggling to make progress to windward compared to my Contessa 32, and partly on chartering etc. BenJenBavs on many occasions. BenJenBavs I sailed up to around the 36' mark were real pigs in a strong wind, rounding up uncontrollably, slamming, making heavy leeway etc. But a 40' Jeanneau I sailed seemed quite happy in something like a F7.

Also, in the Solent (not big waves), beating upwind in about 30 kts of wind all the medium sized BenJenBavs are really struggling to make any progress at all, but I noticed that BenJenBavs about 42' could still make progress to windward at a pace similar to my Contessa 32. How a 42' BenJenBav would behave in stronger winds than that I can not say, nor whether it can cut through bigger waves in less sheltered waters.

I would say that if you're going to buy a BenJenBav over 40' then it should be able to handle cruising around most places, certainly around Europe. If you get caught out in a real nasty though, my guess is that you'd give anything to be in something a different shape, even if over 40'.

Personally, I would never buy a BenJenBav because they are IMHO no fun to sail, and there's little of that intangible pride of ownership factor. But clearly they have their place: that is, where accommodation for use in harbour is the determining factor.

 

[tcm]

Re: agreed

yes. He's been brainwashed. God knows how filthy his mind his was before he set off...

 

[Stingo]

Think the publican is the only one that could actually help. Looking at your picture, it appears as if you might agree.

 

[Stingo]

All depends on who is at the helm as to who is struggling to windward.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Ahhh, so you are open to persuasion, then. I knew if I only suggested the publican you would expect somebody (ie me!) to turn up and pay!

Now let's be serious for a minute - I know you will say you want a cat for more room and to increase your chances of entertaining ladies by having a level floor, rather than something which is rolling around at anchor.

But what about the disadvantages?
- Significantly greater capital cost for a similar length boat
- Difficulty in finding spaces in a marina when required
- Sailing in a rough sea, when both hulls are trying to behave differently

I am sure there must be others. A monohull might be the best compromise after all?

 

[Guest]

You're right, maybe I should have tried fitting a trapeze and a tiller extension /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jimi]

Rubbish .. I've sailed a 34ft bennie successfully to windward in a F8/9. Suspect that those that fail are merely carrying too much sail, are crap helms and would be similarly unsuccessful in a manky auld boat as well.

 

[Stingo]

[ QUOTE ]
- Significantly greater capital cost for a similar length boat
- Difficulty in finding spaces in a marina when required
- Sailing in a rough sea, when both hulls are trying to behave differently

[/ QUOTE ]

1: I am back in th UK to work and if all goes to plan, Evil Knievil won't be able to jump over my wallet.
2: F*** marinas. There are far too many Americans in them and the yanks I've met have generally been loud, ignorant and enviromentally unfriendly.
3: Agree, but you can't have everything in life. I expect to spend less than 30 days a year actually sailing (don't won't to knock up too much distance - max 4 000 miles p.a.) and the other 11 months at anchor.

Next question?

 

[Guest]

One example: I took an ICC test a few years ago on a Ben, about 34', in flat sheltered water but very strong wind. In the strong gusts she rounded up uncontrollably. The boat had a double reefed main, and a few rolls in the genny. The examiner, who was also the owner of the boat, confirmed that this was a problem with the boat that couldn't be corrected by alternative reefing etc., and he wanted to get a different boat next time. Returning to my boat the next day was a completely different world.

Clearly Stingo has sailed around the world in a Ben 39 footer, and many have crossed oceans etc. so such boats can be sailed long distances. For that matter, I cruised cross Channel on my last boat, a 16' Hobie Cat, but I wouldn't really recommend it. Nor would I fancy sailing an Open 60 round the world.

I admit it, there are better sailors than me. No doubt a superb helmsman can do a lot with a BenJenBav. But the ones that I have sailed have, for me, handled unpleasantly in strong winds.

 

[jimi]

Boat was plainly overcanvassed for the conditions if that was the case. Partic in flat water.I added a 3rd reef to my first sail and am going to do so with the current one. Only real problem I've ever had making ground to windward is seastate where large steep waves tend to stop the boat. Not slamming .. or any other myths like that ..