Arcadia or Symphonie? Golden Shamrock or Club?

[RO'D]

Could anybody comment on the above?
In terms of space down below, sailing performance, any pros or cons that folk may have experienced

They all seem like nice boats which could be good fun for a young family who mostly will be cruising about and maybe joining in the odd club sail.
Could the two Jeanneaus be converted to wheel (apologies to tiller lovers everywhere - its a personal preference)

Finally, is there more headroom on the Club S rather than the Golden S?
Thanks for your assistance

 

[markhomer]

I used to race on a golden shamrock (golden Rule ) , you got to remember that they were designed as racing boats optimised to light winds and old ior rule , very fast in light winds but other than not impressive , , a big but though , as with ron holland designs for ior of this era , rolls most impressively offwind due to narrow tucked in transom , could be most alarming to the uninitiated , we used to fly big boys , bloopers ,big gurls knickers anything we could find to slow roll , guessing the Club s similar in this respect as same hull design .

Think for young family jeanneau way to go and better allround , much quicker off wind in wind too and better accomodation .

 

[jamesjermain]

I used to race on a golden shamrock (golden Rule ) , you got to remember that they were designed as racing boats optimised to light winds and old ior rule , very fast in light winds but other than not impressive , , a big but though , as with ron holland designs for ior of this era , rolls most impressively offwind due to narrow tucked in transom , could be most alarming to the uninitiated , we used to fly big boys , bloopers ,big gurls knickers anything we could find to slow roll , guessing the Club s similar in this respect as same hull design .

Think for young family jeanneau way to go and better allround , much quicker off wind in wind too and better accomodation .

I would agree with all the having raced a GS back in the day (Rosie III by the way). A great windward boat (in heavy airs too, if my memory serves) but a handful downhill. Accommodation was OK for five heavies (including our one legged skipper) who spend most of the time on the weather rail, and typical of cruiser racers of the time. For modern family cruising it would be OK but there are better boats for the job including the two you mention.

Rosie was actually the last boat I raced on in serious competition. We did a Channel race in which we had a heavy up wind crossing to CH1. Shortly before the mark the wind fell light and just after we rounded swung 180 degrees giving us a hard slog back. Two upwind crossings of the Channel without a single moule or sip of crisp Entre Deux Mers was too much so I retired.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Ditto the Shamrock. Never meant to be a cruiser. Suppose you could de-tune one, but there are many easier routes to getting a family cruiser together. Also likely to be pretty basic downstairs, unless it's had a refit.

 

[RO'D]

Thanks folks,
you've confirmed my suspicions..
My head says the Jeanneau but my heart says the Shamrock.
The wheel steering on the Shamrocks is a big attraction, tbh. Being able to sail it pretty much single handed while out with the family is a big help.
A couple of shamrocks around seem to have had pretty decent refits, but I know the SWMBO would probably baulk at the accommodation on offer...

 

[markhomer]

wouldnt fancy trying to sail a shamrock light handed /single handed , they were designed for meat sitting on the rail as ballast , without you would have to reduce sail drastically , they arent the most stable of boats at best of time, wheel steering is nice gives room , but slows down reaction time , which on a shamrock downwind with any wind is at a premium .

old ior boats are good to look at with there curves and bumps , but time has moved on , most modern cruisers today would leave it standing. Jeanneaus are designed for your requirements and if you need a wheel , you can find them , I had a Sunrise 34 , cracking boat , would thoroughly reccomend for your scenario , seen them with wheels , mine was tiller , however if you plan much single handed sailing( or effectively at times - with young family and spouse ) a tiller allows you to go forward in cockpit whilst still steering .

A friend had a symphony when in their prime was a good boat too , could race and cruise easily

 

[RO'D]

should it be possible to retro-fit a wheel to a Symphony or Arcadia then?
They are the two boats close to me that I know about at the moment, I'll have a look for the Sunrise or similiar

 

[Twister_Ken]

Did you see the article in the last PBO about retrofitting wheel steering?

Not difficult as long as there's room under the cockpit floor to do it, which there will be if it was offered as an option from new. Might be hassle if that's not the case, though.

 

[RO'D]

I saw that article, thanks

 

[Mrnotming]

Had Club Shamrock Lady Shamrock for 14 years approx.Was equipped initially by factory for Laurie,(Sail no IR 69) Ron Holand's then wife, to compete at La Rochelle France in the Womens' half-Ton Cup.We did lots with her after the next careful owners.Lead keel usefully does not give any trouble, nor the traverse floors.The joinery inside should be crafted teak of very high quality.The engine will have been an MD7A Volvo, which some owners swear by, but I was not so lucky and re-engined, not difficult to pop in a 2020 with 7 degree down angle.The mast support (on the Club version) will have been changed as the alloy original tended to crimp and depress the coachroof,usually only temporarily.Symphony is beatable round the cans, but for cruising Symphony is faster.Rudders all needed a rebuild at some stage. vital for downwind control.The wheel tended to be a blur most of the time downwind, so I was always glad of the extra power in the Edson gearing.
A club version is great for cruising in heavy weather as it has two bows,One reef in the main and a roller jib nowadays equivalent to a No.2 /3 will power her upwind perfectly when others have given up.The new polyant typw fabrics are good at rolling well, and keeping a better shape when rolled.
The only other boat I could recommend for your perusal is a Rank Marine Dolphin 31, which is a rocket in heavy weather, and has a big interior with I think, tiered bunks aft.The Symphony may have a similar arrangement not sure?Remember a Shamrock 30 has a waterline length of 24.70 feet which tells its own story as regards top speed tales in the bar! All of the others might have a longer waterline immersed length.
One other frightener about Edson wheel steering, the type with the bicycle chain over sprocket arrangement.If the end stops underneath at the quadrant are not man enough, and the wheel is unrestrained, the pedestal can run out of chain, so becoming useless.So make sure your end stops are massive, and keep the emergency tiller to hand. Of course if the rudder has fallen off (used up its quota of excursions) you need to make other arrangements.

 

[Mrnotming]

Sorry, just seen the bit about headroom.I still am about 5'10" and used to be an extra 1/2" Main saloon headroom in the club is good for me.Club has a higher coachroof, which makes her unstable in a B2 capsize, thus when a bit of water gets in the instability rights the boat.(Raparee Fastnet 1979 sailed back after the event to safety unassisted)

 

[Salty John]

I had a Symphonie for a couple of years. Sailed well, quite quick, voluminous interior. I bounced her off the hard packed sandy bottom of Galveston Bay and cracked the hull alongside the keel. I didn't think she suited me for serious cruising so I sold her. Only boat I ever owned with a baguette holder in the galley.

 

[RO'D]

Thanks folks for all the comments, it's a great help.
Paulclan is that your boat that Donal MCarthy sailed on an Atlantic circuit?
She looks lovely.

Sounds then like the Jens etc are the way to go...and yet I do love the Shamrocks lines.
Ah well, half the fun is in the looking

 

[Mrnotming]

Yes RO'D that's her!