ARC followers - immoral? Feb YM

[Anthony]

Hi,

Just Had my relaxing read in the bath ruined by my anger at the ARC article in Feb YM. It states that the "gatecrashers" (i.e. the people who choose to cross the Atlantic around the same time as the ARC) are "an irritation to the organisers". The Article concludes by suggesting that someday a couple who were not offical ARC entrants may someday come back and "afford the ARC entry fee".

I have done the ARC as an offial entrant, and would happily consider crossing the Atlantic again as a 'gatecrasher'. Sure ithe ARC is reasonably well run and fun, but it is a lot of money out of most peoples cruising budget, and if you dont want to attend the parties and seminars, then why should you pay Challenge Business to cross the Atlantic at that time?

Challenge Business don't own the right to cross the Atlantic at that time of year, and the origin of the ARC, as a cruise in company seems to be lost.

Yes you gain benifit from crossing at the same time as many others, but I dont see why one person should have the exclusive rights to that. I would be just as happy to go assist a non ARC participant as I would an 'offical' one.

I found the implication that to not do it as an offical entrant to be some how moraly wrong, to be very insulting.

Have I missed something?

Anthony /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Talbot]

I understand that the ARC organisers are actually trying to revert the ARC to more of a cruiser event, and have set a max boat size for next years event, with a recomend for the larger boats to go to an alternative event. I still believe that the event is going toremain far to race oriented, and do not plan to be a future participant, but will obviously be departing at about the same time in a few years time (when I do go) cause it happens to coincide with my own plans. If they dont like it - tough!

 

[Stingo]

I heard there's a crowd called NARC or Not the Arc Rally Crossing and another called ARSE or Atlantic for Real Sailing Enthusiasts, neither of which charge any wonga and they have just as much fun.

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[janeK]

Totally agree with you that type of attitude does nothing for the sailing image you would have thought by now he had enough money in the bank?

 

[jonic]

We did Rally Antigua with Blue Water Rallies, great fun, just cruising no race.

 

[clouty]

Surely no one can deny the freedom of the high seas. Surely it is our duty to help fellow mariners in trouble if we can when out there. Surely we expect the same.

Don't let the bread heads take over the last great area of freedom and responsibility on this (becoming) benighted planet.

I'm amazed that anyone voted for option 1.

 

[ChrisE]

I can see where you are coming from, the sea is free and all that but there are a point that has not been mentioned. Everyone knows that the ARC leaves from Gran Canaria and goes to St. Lucia and that is but one of an infinite number of routes across the pond, I believe that what the organisers are getting upset about is that group of people that cross with the fleet to get the comfort / safety of a group without paying their dues and in that I agree. You either do it alone and be self sufficient or go with a group and if the group ask for money that's fine by me.

Noone is forcing the followers to leave from Gran Canaria, OK they might have chosen that route anyway but IMO you'd be daft to be anywhere near the ARC festivities, if you are looking for self-sufficient crossing. It is akin to deciding to chosing the Solent at Cowes week for your weekly cruise.

Young Stingo followed our route via the Verdes to Brazil, a route can done at anytime of the year as it is outside the hurricane belt and can leave from any one of the many ports in the Canaries.

 

[john_morris_uk]

What actions can they possibly take against NARC participants? I am trying to imagine any scenario in which a boat at sea and not involved with the ARC was denied assistance which didn't bring down heaps of unwanted negative publicity on the Rally organisers.

It might be irritating to them to see people picking up infomation without contributing to their profits, but lifes like that sometimes and my sympathy valve is closed.

We did look at the costs for joining the Round the World Rally thingy - but the costs of £10,000 per entry made us realise how much fun it will be making friends with people we meet by ourselves.

 

[penultimate]

My sentiments exactly. I crewed a NARC boat from Gomera to Barbados is 1998. We had our own radio net and it never occured to us that we were sailing in the ARC's exclusive patch. Subsequently met up in St.Lucia with remnants of the ARC fleet and found no hostility or exclusivness amongst them.

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[snowleopard]

so what are the spongers and gatecrashers actually taking?

special weather forecasts - the frequencies and times aren't a closely guarded secret though the code names for the forecast areas would need to be pinched. not that the info isn't there by other means

the radio net - the ability to contact large numbers of other boats in an emergency without the hassle of organising ones own net. neither the organisers nor participants complain about going to the aid of non-ARC boats. NARCs can't gatecrash the position reporting (not that it works all that well - our relatives thought we'd gone missing part way across).

shore side facilities aren't taken up by NARCs in fact they are pushed out of areas they could otherwise use.

no, we enjoyed the social side of the ARC and had a bit of fun with the racing aspect (we came 11th) but next time we'll be NARCs and not miss barbados and we won't feel guilty about it.

 

[Sgeir]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm amazed that anyone voted for option 1.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because the question asked "if you want to cross the Atlantic with the ARC" does not mean at the same time as the ARC etc. It means taking advantage of the comfort of company and forecasts without chipping in to the pot. Freeloaders.

 

[Parsonsheath]

I am getting a bit lost here, surely if anyone assists anyone it is only their responsibility on the water? The organisers do not run a fleet of private lifeboats from their fees, and assistance comes from those individuals sailing in the area.

Are you suggesting that we revert to the "good old days" when unless my house had an insurers flag on it showing the name of the the firecart passing, then no one should assist me in emergency?

 

[jerryat]

Yep, entirely agree with you! I too, am totally fed up with the ARC's 'holier than thou' attitude. I wouldn't remotely consider getting involved with their 'rally', and it's nothing to do with cost. We prefer making our own decisions about when we go or how long we stay. The idea that there is somehow a great deal of 'added safety' is IMHO substantially rubbish. As several ARC crews I've spoken with on my circuits have said, they saw no other yacht after the first 24/48 hours, and (like us with Herb) used HF for boat to boat contact.

We, as many, many others, do not feel the need to be 'organised' and are perfectly happy to make our own decisions and mistakes - and live with them!

This name of 'NARC' (Not the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers) was originally dreamt up by Yachting Monthly as I recall, or at least appeared to be 'condoned' by Andrew Bray when he was editor and had 'done' the ARC. It was at that point that I cancelled my subscription after many years, and have never bought a copy since.

As others say, the Atlantic and those sailing small boats across it, were there long before the ARC, and the freedom of the seas is not something the organisers should resent.

Phooo! Feel a bit better now!!

Cheers
Jerry

 

[pessimist]

Thought the whole article was somewhat patronising. In the next few years we hope to make the crossing and will certainly not be joining the ARC although we may well be crossing at the same time. I would respond fairly aggressively to any accusation of freeloading.

 

[claymore]

Well - there's a whole pile of indignation flying around here.

Arc followers are surely doing this because they will experience a sense of security by being somewhere near a fleet of other boats when undertaking what is a major venture for the first time?
I remember shadowing another boat the first time I went around the Mull of Kintyre as a young sprog alone in my Corribee.

I think the hidden issue is that should someone get into trouble they may call up the fleet so the security issue is really one of safety. The Arc goes at a time when the weather is favourable so its a good time for anyone to go.

The followers are really just hitch-hiking - I can see both sides here - neither of which seems worth getting too stressed about

 

[tcm]

free market analysis

This is a fair enough point, sgeir.

However, spose frexample there was um, a tour around a free-entrance fine art museum by a great expert, and all a group paid a fee so the great expert gavem lectures and so on. I think we're agreed that it would be a bit off to hang about at the back of this group, listening in pretending to be part even tho not paid? Of course. But this isn't what's being described, afaik.

But what if there were only a few exhibits in the museum, (or only one) and hanging around in the vicinity of the tour was unavoidable? What if the weather conditions determined the correct viewing conditions - a great mas of people would surge forward to see the exhibit on the right day - and it'd be pretty obvious that it was also time to go - and you've have to go as well?

Spose also that the mueum comprised two building miles apart - such that there were obvious advantages in going at around the same time as a load of other people - regardless of whether part of an orgainsed paying group or not. Suppose also that you spoke to one of the paying group who was v friendly - you migth even know him from a while back- you still didn't join their group or listen in, but the new friend said how experienced the great expert was, and he relayed the great experts suggestion of when to go to the other building. At what point do you feel it reasonable to pay to join the group? For me - not at any point yet.

Now, the arc prices are not cheap. So, what they offer had better be EITHER

a) V special - that you cdn't otherwse get free or make yerself (like there aren't any fab free boats, or decent free gps chartplotters), So, are the lectures amazing? Or the parties to die for? Maybe? Or is the berthing dead cheap? Sounds not to be so.

OR

b) Not v special, but limited supply (eg parking space in central london). Bit difficult this - if you have a boat, you can cross the pond no prob. Is it impossible to get in a port at that time - nope. Although it's not poss to go on the grouo-booked pontoons - so that a sort-of restriction.

So, either the arc-only events oughta be really really good. Or, the prices oughta be lower - and charge extra for party tickets - Bet they wdn't do this! Or, they should start doing some really restricty things like booking the entire port somehow, or printing notes in code, or running the radio nets in Swahili. All these a bit difficult.

The other thing, of course, to extract money wd be to use other forces to persuade people to pay. Legally, embarassment, frexample is a prime mover at the cloakrooms at restaurants - you could easily not pay, and you cd also hang onto the coat. Is this what's being used here?

 

[TigaWave]

The good thing the ARC has done is encourage more people to explore who may have staid at home...but...

Its only natural, especially during first crossings to seek company, and that is not something you need to pay for.
What should be encouraged through forums such as these is to inform those who wish to cross that there is plentifull free support and information from those of us who've been there and there will always be plenty of help and support from oter more experienced cruisers in every port you visit (sometimes too much)
I would gladly give my time and experience to those wishing to plan a long cruise for the first time.

What you pay for is a party and a start and finish time.
What first timers need to be told is that there is always a party on arrival, and if you want to leave as a bunch you can....then have your own sweepstake on who gets to the bar first.

By all means head off with the biggest group....if thats a rally then why not, as long as you dont expect the free drinks and a finish time.

For the record the best parties seemed to be in Horta....as each boat came in!

For those thinking about heading off....
In practice you're pretty much on your own anyhow, unless you have satelite phones or ssb, we bumped into one yacht on the way back, and only managed to keep in touch for 48hrs by vhf with two others on the way out. You should plan to be completely without back up even if you leave with a rally.

The Arc is a party organizer with a stop watch (as the race can't really be a race when you can use your engine, correct me if I'm wrong)
The other services they offer of support and training can be found on any cruising route.

Neil

 

[snowleopard]

neil, i think you have picked up a few misconceptions about the ARC. firstly there are quite a few benefits beyond the radio net and berth bookings, for example there is a series of seminars in las palmas by experts, jimmy cornell for one. there is also a lot of support from the staff, for example they found me an english-speaking dentist when i broke a tooth 3 days before the start.

other useful services include a dedicated weather forecast (which is incidentally in code! - the sea areas are given private codenames). the position reporting so friends and relatives can monitor your progress is also useful.

it is a requirement to have long range communications, either ssb or satellite. 70%+ have ssb.