ARC; five crew were evacuated after the BM39 yacht started sinking

danielefua

danielefua

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I acknowledge that I may be biased by the fact that I own a genuine seagoing boat but... would you board a couple of kids in a racing car and go for the Paris-Dakar Rally?
As I understand the BM's are pretty like Formula 1 machines.

Daniel
 
My wife and I were just discussing Vendee Globe and ARC this morning, as she knows I am keen to do ARC (she says she'll meet me in St Lucia)

I told her about this sinking which has freaked her out a bit

Having looked at the link they appear to be well engineered boats. I note the lifting keel (like us)

I don't suppose we'll ever really know where the leak came from
 
danielefua said:
I acknowledge that I may be biased by the fact that I own a genuine seagoing boat but... would you board a couple of kids in a racing car and go for the Paris-Dakar Rally?
As I understand the BM's are pretty like Formula 1 machines.

Daniel
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Doesn't look anything like a formula 1 machine to me. The only thing that makes me question its suitability for an ocean crossing is the swing keel. But even that could potentially be ok. OVNIs and the Pogo 12.50 have swing keels.
 
rgarside said:
Still has that dangerous open cockpit!!!
Click to expand...

If you are referring to the open transom can you explain why it is so "dangerous."
Whilst i can imagine a crew who were not clipped on being swept overboard I know only too well that in my own boat I could just as easily be tipped in if not clipped on because of the shallow design many current boats have. I also know that even though it has the "regulation" self draining cockpit a lot of water will still go below if I get pooped & the weight of water will remain aboard until it drains away. With the open transom any water will clear immediately & coupled with the wide stern the additional buoyancy will avoid the pooping effect in a lot of cases anyway. Are there many records of people going out this way - There are several of those going out of deep cockpits. Adlard Coles describes his own dunking for instance
So what exactly makes it "dangerous" - other than sailing in general!!!
 
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In order not to be misunderstood I would like to clarify that I have nothing against such kind of boats neither I have anything against formula one cars. I am sure I would enjoy very much having one of them or even both!

My doubts are about relying on a boat designed like that in a long passage across the ocean, especially with kids on board. I know that racers (mostly professionals or so) do it quite often, surfing at speeds that I can only dream of with my displacement-hulled boat, zig zagging among storms and fronts but at a cost of very tiring and stressing moments not proper for an happy family looking for just a nice experience.
ARC seems, fortunately, very well organized from a safety point of view but no one should underestimate the fact that it is still a quite long passage in an ocean where the probability of encountering a rough sea is never zero.

To my above list of non-positive aspects of such boats for a relaxed long passage I would also add their "form stability" design: for me and my wife if the angle where the righting moment becomes zero is less than, say 120 deg, it is way too small! :)
If it is exactly 180 deg and even unstable, great, that is the boat for us!

Daniel
 
danielefua said:
In order not to be misunderstood I would like to clarify that I have nothing against such kind of boats neither I have anything against formula one cars. I am sure I would enjoy very much having one of them or even both!

My doubts are about relying on a boat designed like that in a long passage across the ocean, especially with kids on board. I know that racers (mostly professionals or so) do it quite often, surfing at speeds that I can only dream of with my displacement-hulled boat, zig zagging among storms and fronts but at a cost of very tiring and stressing moments not proper for an happy family looking for just a nice experience.
ARC seems, fortunately, very well organized from a safety point of view but no one should underestimate the fact that it is still a quite long passage in an ocean where the probability of encountering a rough sea is never zero.

To my above list of non-positive aspects of such boats for a relaxed long passage I would also add their "form stability" design: for me and my wife if the angle where the righting moment becomes zero is less than, say 120 deg, it is way too small! :)
If it is exactly 180 deg and even unstable, great, that is the boat for us!

Daniel
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In what way has the design contributed to the loss of this boat?

And you criticise the comfort of zipping along. You seem not to have have sailed on a wide-platform planing hull. Believe, me, a twin-rudder wide-hulled boat trundling merrily along at 12 knots with the spinnaker up can feel like she is running on rails. It is very stable and does not have an unpleasant motion at all.

It might not be the boat for you, but if I were to go across the pond with my kids I would be looking for something like a Pogo 12.50 - and would feel even happier in a Class 40, but the kids might mutiny at the spartan interior.
 
On the subject of stability I found this a very readable and informative article:

http:http://www.wavetrain.net/boats-a-gear/471-modern-sailboat-design-quantifying-stability//

Back to this BM39. Does anyone know what they are like to sail? Is it the racer that the OP seems to suggest, or is it a tough go-anywhere like the Ovni?
I have only ever seen one close up, and I thought it was a most interesting design with a number of really smart ideas. The one I saw was being sailed by a chap in a wheelchair, IIRC, so the wide cockpit and level floors would have been useful.
 
bbg said:
In what way has the design contributed to the loss of this boat?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the misunderstanding but I never intended to hint or write that. As already mentioned no one knows to date the actual reason of the sinking and it may be totally unrelated to my arguments here.
In fact I was shocked by the news and, as I did not know what a BM39 was, I just browsed the internet and found the mentioned page. At that point I thought: gosh! is that a boat I would cross the ocean with? and started the thread...
Hearing what other people think about my belief which might be very well old fashioned and obsolete is interesting. That's all!

...maybe I should change the title of the thread... is it possible?

Daniel
 
Resolution said:
On the subject of stability I found this a very readable and informative article:

http:http://www.wavetrain.net/boats-a-gear/471-modern-sailboat-design-quantifying-stability//

Back to this BM39. Does anyone know what they are like to sail? Is it the racer that the OP seems to suggest, or is it a tough go-anywhere like the Ovni?
I have only ever seen one close up, and I thought it was a most interesting design with a number of really smart ideas. The one I saw was being sailed by a chap in a wheelchair, IIRC, so the wide cockpit and level floors would have been useful.
Click to expand...

Looking at the various designs on the Berckemeyer website, they are definitely tough, well engineered boats and capable of going anywhere an Ovni can go. Even more so, given that they will perform well in conditions where Ovnis are poor such as upwind or light winds. You can also specify interior helming positions if you want too.

Back to the sinking, can't imagine what could cause on such a well engineered boat a leak big enough to sink it that would also remain undetected. I suspect an inexperienced crew on an unfamiliar boat. The comments made by the skipper seemed a bit naive too.
 
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