ANYTHING I'VE OVERLOOKED

[ANDY_W]

ANYTHING I\'VE OVERLOOKED

I'M LOOKING AT BECOMING A LIVEABOARD IN ABOUT 3/4 YEARS, AS SOON AS I CAN GET THE FINANCES ORGANISED.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE ARE THREE MAIN CONSIDERATIONS
1.FINANCES
2.CRUISING AREA
3.BOAT

FINANCES- I HOPE TO RAISE SUFFICIENT CAPITAL FROM SAVINGS AND SALE OF THE HOUSE TO EITHER LIVE OFF THE INTEREST ALONE OR USE THE INTEREST TO EXTEND THE CAPITAL UNTIL THE PENSION KICKS IN.HOPEFULLY THAT WILL STILL LEAVE A LUMP SUM TO SETTLE DOWN ASHORE WHEN I GET TOO OLD AND DECREPID.

CRUISING AREA- INITIAL THOUGHTS ARE UK WATERS,DAY SAILING TO NO PARTICULAR TIME TABLE, OVERWINTER IN MARINAS.IDEA IS TO SEE PARTS OF THE COUNTRY I'VE NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO VISIT.

BOAT- I'M JUST IN THE PROCESS OF BUYING A TATTY 25FT WESTERLY TIGER TO REFURBISH. THE ENGINE IS SEIZED SO I WILL THROW IT AWAY AND CONVERT TO AN OUTBOARD IN A WELL- CHEAPER TO BUY,CHEAP TO REPAIR,FEWER HOLES IN HULL,MORE PAYLOAD AVAILABLE FOR STORES,EQUIPMENT ETC.OBVIOUSLY I WILL RENEW ALL RIGGING,SEACOCKS ETC.THE SPADE RUDDER WILL BE REPLACED BY A TRANSOM MOUNTED RUDDER-AGAIN,EASIER TO MAINTAIN AND ONE LESS HOLE.ELECTRICAL POWER TO BE SUPPLIED BY WIND GENERATOR AND SOLAR CELL CHARGING 300/400 AMP BATTERY BANK.HEATING BY PARAFIN STOVE WHICH PUTS OUT SO MUCH HEAT THAT MY CURRENT 22FOOTER HAS NEVER SUFFERED FROM CONDENSATION DUE TO THE STOVE.

I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE AT ALL, BUT WOULD WELCOME VIEWS ON ANCHOR SIZES- SHOULD I EQUIP TO BLUE WATER STANDARD, AND ON PARAFIN/GAS FOR COOKING.

WHAT ELSE SHOULD I CONSIDER

FOR INFO, I'M 50-ISH,SINGLEHANDED,SAILED A 22FOOTER AROUND THE SOUTHWEST AND SCILLIES FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS AND HAVE RYA COASTAL SKIPPER.

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[AndrewB]

Re: ANYTHING I\'VE OVERLOOKED

Sounds like you know pretty well what you are doing, but anyway here's my take on some of your points.

Most people would find a 25' yacht on the small side for a permanent liveaboard, even for one, unless you can retain shore-side storage. (I lived on a 26' for a while, but wouldn't like to now). But it's all a matter of taste. Once you are off the property ladder in a small liveaboard that will depreciate, it will be very difficult ever to get back on. You need to be very comfortable with the idea of trading off an interesting life in the here and now, with possible poverty when you need to come back ashore.

Try to get as much work as possible done in advance, because living aboard such a small yacht while undertaking major renovation or repairs is really uncomfortable. Despite your remarks about the paraffin heater, insulate the boat as far as possible above the water-line, and arrange run-offs from the windows.

There's no merit in doing the yacht up to a full blue-water cruising standard if you intend to focus on coastal cruising. The anchor decision is marginal, and like a lot else of your plans, depends on how much you expect to use marinas. As you expect to use them in winter, and maybe bad weather, then one of about 25lbs would be adequate. More extended anchoring and a heavier one - e.g. a 35lb CQR, which will give a lot of assurance if you have to leave the yacht on its anchor, or if you do get caught out somewhere. But that is about the limit of what you will be able to lift by hand without a windlass.

With fairly regular use of a marina, neither solar cells nor a wind-generator are really likely to be cost-effective compared with using shore power and top-ups when your engine is run, to keep the batteries charged. (It's different for the guy on a mooring who just uses them to keep his batteries ticking over between weekend sails). If you expect to carry power-hungry gizmos like a TV or fridge, and will spend a lot of time away from marinas, you might consider carrying a small portable generator which will quickly recharge your batteries or provide mains power for short periods.

A decent dinghy is a must.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: ANYTHING I\'VE OVERLOOKED

If you are staying in the UK and living aboard, heating will be your number one issue. Re the paraffin stove, if the stove is flued then all the moisture from combustion goes up the flue, if it is not flued then all the moisture goes into the boat - around 1 gallon water per gallon paraffin, ISTR. Even after red diesel becomes unavailable - 2006 - I think that diesel will be cheaper than paraffin bought in 5l packs at filling stations and a heck of a lot more convenient!! I haven't researched the market recently but Force 10 and Taylors used to make a drip-feed cabin heater. Avoid the ducted systems for your application because they use a lot of dc power, are noisy and might not last long if you run them 24/24 for 6 months of the year (though Mikuni told me that theirs are run round the clock on busses, etc. and there is no problem with the life of the unit).

We use shore power with a fan and convector heater (we also have two reverse-cycle air conditioners that are very efficient) so we try to manage without burning any diesel, but we are a bigger boat. We used a dehumidifier on our Centaur (26') all winter and found that useful but might be impossible with liveaboard stuff as well.

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[Sea Devil]

Re: ANYTHING I\'VE OVERLOOKED

25ft is a bit small for a liveaboard but... Your cruising area might be better in warmer - longer summer areas - consider going down to the Med - via the canals - big place - lots to see and much more comfortable than UK waters - you can always come back if you don't like it..

<hr width=100% size=1>If you have time please visit my web site -
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing</A>

 

[ANDY_W]

Re: ANYTHING I\'VE OVERLOOKED

Thanks for the replies; it seems that I am heading in the right direction.

I take the point about the size of the boat but how much space does one person need? I' ve got the choice of spending more for a larger boat and having less cash to live on or spending less on the boat and having more cash to play with.

Bearing in mind my plans to stay in the UK, the potential cost of mooring fees is a significant factor to be allowed for, never mind the lower maintenance costs etc .

I have to admit to being heavily influenced by Annie Hill of Badger when she writes about keeping things simple and basic- less to go wrong and easier to fix when it does.

It has occurred to me to look at going to the Med but I wouldn't be too keen on single handing across Biscay and I'm not certain how I would get on going solo through the French canals- all that I've read suggests that being at least two up is essential.Any thoughts on getting to the Med solo would be welcome.

As regards heating, my own, admittedly small, experience on board in winter highlights the need for a really good solution.The paraffin heater would do for occasional use but in winter I plan to use a fan heater plugged in to the marina mains.

As regards electrical supplies, I have the wind generator and solar cell setup on my current boat, connected to a 75 amp battery.This is just about adequate for two weeks summer cruise and weekends. The biggest problem I've found is that when the wind does blow, the battery rapidly recharges and most of the wind energy is then dissipated by the heatsink.I use an Aero4Gen which has blown 15 amp fuses in the stronger winds.Hence the plan to have a large battery bank to store the energy when it is available.

There are no plans to have a fridge- any useful size would probably take up half the boat.Might have a small TV.

The dinghy point is well made.I've got an elderly 9ft Avon which, contrary to popular belief, actually goes quite well under oars.

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[Anonymous]

Re: ANYTHING I\'VE OVERLOOKED

>>Any thoughts on getting to the Med solo would be welcome.<<

You could get a price for road delivery, you might be pleasantly surprised. Peters Plc in Chichester are big players in yacht transport. The cost of transport would be offset by a reduction in some of your other costs and anyway, isn't the Med worth a premium?

>>I plan to use a fan heater plugged in to the marina mains.<<

Convectors are silent and give out a more comfortable heat. We only use the fan for topping up in the daytime and use the convector for background heat. We once did the same on the Centaur and there is room, believe it or not!

>>Hence the plan to have a large battery bank to store the energy when it is available.<<

Does your outboard give a good charge rate? I upgraded our Centaur (Volvo MD 11C) alternator from 35A to 75A and fitted a smart charger. It was most welcome for serious cruising, let alone live-aboard. Unless you can easily hand-start the engine then two batteries are essential. In any case you don't want to discharge the battery more than 50% unless it is a special deep-dischage type or it will soon fail or lose capacity.

>>There are no plans to have a fridge- any useful size would probably take up half the boat<<

We used an Engles portable coolbox with compressor - not to be confused with a Peltier-element fridge. It was very efficient and I just tied it back onto a seat so it couldn't fall forward. It unties in a few seconds if you want to move it, or take it in the car.


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[roly_voya]

Re: Electrics

I have run electrics off an outboard (yam 8 which drove a folkboat perfectly) this provided 10a to a max 75ah battery, any bigger and you will burn out the charger. This was fine and ran a couple of cabin lights plus 'ships systems' when cruising but deffinatly would not run the boat at anchor or in harbour mainly because of the charge voltage (13.8v) which is not designed to recharge batteries but to maintin them. If you fit alarger battery bank than you can charge comfortably then it will just sulphate and die. I suggest that if not fitting a deisel engine you should look at an electric free boat ie oil lamps, no fridge, stove that isn't plugged in etc. and cosider electricity as a bonus when its there. As you say Annie Hill and others do this but you have to stick to the whole philosophy. Suggest however you maybe consider possibly a bit bigger boat if need be so that you can be independent of mainas for more of the time since 6 months winter rate in the marina will cost in exess of £800 per year, every year (and much more in some places) wheras anchoring is (mostly) free. over 10 years that at least 8 grand to someone else for not being independent and any stay during the summer is more like £70-£100 a week, you can rent a flat for that!!

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[pragmatist]

Re: ANYTHING I\'VE OVERLOOKED

You ask about getting to the Med solo - had you considered just buying a boat there instead ? Certainly some posts on this forum & Scuttlebutt suggest that you could get a good deal.

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

 

[AndrewB]

Annie Hill ...

... has to be taken with a pinch of salt. My impression is that she lived that way mainly in order to write a book about it, not because she liked it. Moitessier is a more convincing example of committment to the simple life -- if you can cope with his spiritual claptrap.

Dunno about your Aerogen but my Rutland 910 pumped out no more than a steady 30Ah per day in trade winds. Sufficient to keep the navigation instruments and lights going, with nothing left over for the domestics. But it was well below this on average in the UK where winds are less steady and most harbours are too well-sheltered from the prevailing winds. OK in the Scillies though! Like you I blew the 15A fuse a couple of times in real blasts, but that certainly wasn't typical. A downer with the Rutland was it got noisy after a few years so I tended to turn it off at nights. I scrapped it (my second) a couple of years ago but have just bought an Aquagen.

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[ANDY_W]

Re: Annie Hill ...

Many thanks again for the replies- it's a pleasure to read answers from folks who are really trying be helpful especially when they confirm that one's own ideas are basically workable and then go on to suggest further avenues to explore.



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