Anyone bought diesel since 1st Nov..

Not bought any as I guess like most peeps had already filled up, but signed the annual 60/40 declaration at the marina on Saturday, their example sheet showed current averaged out price at that split as 95p pl, said it should come down a bit with the next delivery so not so bad at all really. Apparently we just serve ourselves as before and they will apply the split to the bill when they finally get around to sending it. (still haven’t had the bill for the last fill up)
 
Interesting.....

So they aren't asking you for the split at each fillup?

Are they doing the same thing for raggies? If I was a raggie, I wouldn't like to pay 60/40, as I would say that their genny and heating (if fitted) etc would be far more than 40%. Their main form of propulsion isn't diesel, its the wind (which at the moment remains free....watch this space!)
 
Talking to raggies at our club, I mentioned that they can just "jerry-up" at a local garage with red that farmers still buy.

10 gallons is two jerries and will keep a raggie going for ages. No need for declarations and marina forms and stuff. Who's going to know?

Ditto smaller diesel boats like single engine peche promenade thingies.
 
Apparently it works the same for all, you just declare whatever split you want for the year and that’s it, they do the rest and it all appears completely seamless, at our marina anyway, can’t speak for others but I expect they will be the same.
 
Some raggies can use jerry cans, maybe, but don't assume all!.

we have a 320litre tank which is large, other more common sizes would be 80-100litres which is too much for cans.

Also depends how much it is used - just for getting in and out of a marina for local sailing obviously not much, but its not unknown to motor for several hours at a time. eg crossing the channel which we do 4 or 5 times a year, could burn 50litres each way.

In any event, I am keen to see the price come down for mobo's too, as it has a direct impact on the economics of the boating industry as a whole. This is important in places like Lymington, which is largely dependant on boaters.
 
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Apparently it works the same for all, you just declare whatever split you want for the year and that’s it, they do the rest and it all appears completely seamless, at our marina anyway, can’t speak for others but I expect they will be the same.

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It doesn't have to be an annual declaration; if your split changes (running heating or other domestic use in the winter and no cruising - for example then you are free to redeclare if you so wish.

HMRC wanted to make it easy for boaters and dealers to operate. Trouble is that boaters seem to want to make the whole thing complicated.......
 
Is that 60/40 split realistic for a motorboat? Good luck to you if you can get away with it, but don't you think the revenue might start looking for justification of these numbers if they think they are loosing money?
 
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Is that 60/40 split realistic for a motorboat? Good luck to you if you can get away with it, but don't you think the revenue might start looking for justification of these numbers if they think they are loosing money?

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No - it is HMRC themselves that have suggested that the 60/40 split is appropriate.
 
HMCR suggest it as the norm, so who am I to argue?, I doubt they will bother anybody unless they go through marina records at anual submission time and see somebody clearly taking the piss.
 
You have to consider the administrative costs of other solutions, this way the Government complies with the EU, gets a little more revenue at no additional costs.

By the way some raggies go huge distances on engine so don't be so sure about their usage. I looked at a 5 year old Oyster that had done 2040 miles on the engine, on a crusing Yacht they reckon 10% mileage will be done on power. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif becasue I'm surprised that the revenue is happy with a ratio that seems so generous to boat owners. I'd have thought they'd be out for every penny they could get.
I don't think I could honestly claim that 40% of my diesel is used for battery charging and water heating on a sailing boat with no shore power. Surely boats with bigger engines and shore power will use less than 40% for domestic purposes.
 
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I'm surprised that the revenue is happy with a ratio that seems so generous to boat owners

[/ QUOTE ] I have a theory about this:

Hard though it may be to believe, I think that the authorities feel embarrassed by the withdrawal of the derogation, having attempted to get it extended. I seem to recall that the RYA's fall-back position, if derogation were ended, was to press for the minimum amount of duty (i.e. similar to that prevalent in other EU states) to be levied. This couldn't be acheived without lots of legislation, and a further tier of duty, which would have established an undesirable and possibly unpopular precedent ("more tax breaks for the rich, with their luxury yachts" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) so they devised this way round the rules, to give a similar outcome by the back door.

Imho, we have - probably deliberately - been given a gift horse by the taxman and we shouldn't look it in the mouth, or advertise the fact too loudly.

All pure speculation on my part.
 
I agree with that analysis. I think HMRC saw the EU directive as being foisted on them and probably calculated that the cost of applying the new duty rigorously was more than what they'd collect in revenue. I would like to think also that the govt put pressure on HMRC because of the damage it might do to the UK boating industry and I also think that the RYA and BMIF fought a good battle
Whilst 60/40 might appear generous for gas guzzling planing boats, it's not actually that generous for the huge number of inland waterway boats in the UK, many of which move very little and when they do, they sip fuel. I guess 60/40 is a compromise between inland and coastal boating
 
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