Anyone been caught without VAT papers and what happened?

[Heckler]

after a couple of days of entertaining posting about the dreaded vat papers we are supposed to carry, has anyone been stopped by monsiuer douane or who ever and asked for the vat papers and if so what happened next, no anecdotal evidence, first hand please.
stu

 

[Sea Devil]

I was 'boarded' a few months ago by French Douane wanting all the papers. I had purchased the boat recently- 3rd owner. They were interested in the VAT status but did not ask for any papers to prove it - could be to do with the age of the boat. Also the fact I had the last two bills of sale which effectively proved the boat was in UK waters since launch. (Got very interested in the fact I lived in France and ordered me to buy a 'French Boat Passport' which has involved getting her measured as for Part 1 - but fortunately FOC.)

I bet UK customs are doing the same. I get the feeling that there is a EU order out for all countries to regularise the VAT situation with boats.

Really do not think there is anything to fear if you are a UK boat just visiting another EU country briefly. I think they are after 'foreign' vessels purchased outside the EU for example USA - registered on SSR and sailed over here without any duty/tax being paid. This is of course due to the very lax way the SSR system is administrated. No requirements to prove any statement made in the application. Bet that changes! The French Boat Passport system is a requirement for all craft belonging to French residents or citizens. Charges on a sliding scale dependant on size and engine capacity..... wonder how long before that crosses the channel!!!!

 

[Keltman]

In 2000 we were boarded twice -Rouen and then in Marseillan near Sete.I am a retired Police Officer and it was apparent at Rouen that it was a training run so if there had been a problem detected by the 2 experienced officers who actually came on board it would have been farmed out to one of the 3 trainees on the pontoon to gain experience in the paperwork etc.When they got to the VAT question they stopped as soon as they saw that my boat was built in 1985.I was relieved as I thought the cut off point for this was 1st Jan 1985 but they were happy.Same again in Marseillan.From my experience in the Police Force I think it helped that we passed the Áttitude Test´and had all our papers immediately to hand.

 

[absit_omen]

No, never been asked to show any VAT papers in five years.

Furthermore, we have never met anybody in the liveaboard community who has been checked either.

Unfortunately, I do not think you are going to get a satisfactory answer to your question.

 

[[2574]]

Agreed that the "attitude test" is very important. We were boarded twice (Camaret and Port Haliguen) and similarly had a file together that displayed the documents easily and all were readily available. Always offer a cafe' (which will always be refused) to get off on the right foot and then they'll be fine. I asked for a fiche after the first inspection which was readily produced which we waved at the subsequent visit and after seeing this they very happily left us alone.

rob

 

[charles_reed]

Never been asked for VAT proof though I've frequently been interviewed by le Douaniers.

The la Rochelle office proudly reckon they're the most efficient, showed me their local bar and opened my eyes to the "wrinkles" to be used to keep in their good books. Best bet is to be proactive and call on them with the papers.

As in the UK their powers are frighteningly wide, no need for they're having to provide proof, their opinion is the law - it's standard practice for a proportion of the fines collected by any office to go into the "Christmas fund" and there is a monthly published table of ranking for the various offices.

The central computer tracks every foreign boat accurately - unless you have an address outside France you've got to apply for french immatriculation within 6 months, or they can confiscate the boat.
Generally, if the boat's more than 12 years old, they're not too bothered about proof of VAT having been paid, providing it's provably been within the EU since new.
If they do decide you've not paid VAT, it's their valuation on which you are levied.

Still, if you're an EU citizen and speak French, you'll be OK. You're really at risk if you have no French and fly the stars and stripes.

 

[Jeannius]

I was threatened with being impounded by a very nice customs lady in Cascais marina, Portugal.

Slightly complicated situation... My brand new boat, built in France, sold to me by the U.K. based agent for immediate export to the Caribbean. The story was that the French customs didn't want to know about providing the paperwork cos the boat was sold to UK agent. The UK customs wouldn't provide it because the boat never entered the UK.

Anyway, I didn't have the right bit of paper and it took many frantic phone calls and faxes to UK and France before enough paper could be produced to persuade Portugese customs lady to let us go on our way to the Canaries and then the Caribbean.

I've never fully understood who (UK/France) should have provided what paperwork in these circumstances and was very relieved when the boat finally left EU waters, never to return!

 

[absit_omen]

Jeannius, I looked into what you have done afew years ago(with an OVNI). I put the export question to a very friendly UK VAT inspector (who I had asked to look at my business VAT). She said that, having taken an 'offshore delivery' if I landed at any intermediary point in the EU, I would risk having to pay VAT in full.

I have not been aware of any paperwork which allows stopping off at other EU ports en route to a non-EU country.

I think you may have had a lucky escape - well done!

 

[Jeannius]

Anthony,

My understanding is that under the sailaway scheme ( or some similar name) You have 6 months to leave the EU before you are liable for VAT. My problem was that neither the French manufacturer nor the UK agent gave me the right bit of paper!

 

[temptress]

Sitting in Camaret in we were borded by the French asking for proof of VAT. However the delivery crew on the New Sweeden 45 next door were asked the same question and when they found that the boat was 7 months old and still inthe EU they lost interest in us. When we left several days later the Sweeds were still having problems.

We have been borded by UK Customs in Mid-channel during a delivery from Caen to Brighton. They were specifically looking for people but also took a close look at the paperwork. Luclily all in order.