Anybody got a T-number

[DeeGee]

According to my Ships Radio Licence - just received, but posted in January (APPARENTLY !!) - Page 11 says that for all transmissions on my HH portable I should use one of the following (a) The "T" reference number indicated on the Licence (b)...

Now, on Page 1, there is a space for a "T" number identification (Applicable only for a Ship Portable Radio Licence) which is empty, but of course, my listing of Radio Equipment includes 2 VHF Portable Radios.

Well, there's a thing for you..... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Malcb]

Your Hend helds are covered under the ship's licence for use on the ship or the ship's tender.

You only need a T (for transportable) licence if you plan to use your handheld on ships which either don't have a licence, or do not have H/H on the ships licence.

I have a T licence for my H/H, because even though it is covered on ny boat by the ships licence, I regularly go on boats that do not have a ships licence. As it's also free 'for life' it's not worth not having one.

 

[DeeGee]

Errm, yes, you are probably right about what is intended . It is just that it doesnt say so. It uses Schedule 1 to detail fixed equipment and Schedule 2 for ANY portable, including EPIRBs.

It states in Schedule 1 Ship Radio Licence that the radio equipment is to be used only on-board the ship, except in emergency.

In Schedule 2 Ship Portable Radio Licence it states that 'The radio equipment listed in Section 1 of the licence may consist of one or more of the following: (a) one(1) hand held portable VHF...not designed to be permanently installed on a vessel' Then (c) EPIRBs. That same schedule says that the radio equipment covered under this schedule <u>may be used on board a vessel or its tender</u> , and then goes on to mention using the T-number in transmissions.

Since <u>the radio equipment listed in Section 1 of the licence</u> (using exactly same words as quoted above) includes my 2 VHF Portable Radios, I think my question stands. What we have is gobbledigook which says one thing, but they are working to another system.... or maybe we should all have T-numbers? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Solitaire]

[ QUOTE ]
or maybe we should all have T-numbers? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And why not? In fact when I do VHF courses I suggest that when applying for a new license that you also get a portable one at the same time. It's free and then you are in no doubt as to when it can be used. It just becomes an addition to your main license.

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there's a thing for you

[/ QUOTE ] You only quote one small part of paragraph 6 on page 11. You should read all four sections, a, b, c, and d.

malcb has already explained things briefly but to express things in different wording and at greater length:-

Clearly you have what is termed a "Ship Radio Licence" but there are two classes of licence:

One is the "Ship Radio Licence" which relates specifically to your vessel. It carries the vessel name and lists all the radio equipment installed or carried on board. Hand held radios, for use on the vessel or its tender may be included. You are issued with an alpha numeric callsign which you use together with the vessel name for identification.

The other is the "Ship Portable Radio Licence" which is issued to you but does not relate to your vessel. It enables you to use a portable radio on a vessel which does not have a "Ship Radio Licence" In place of a callsign you are issued with "T" number for identification. No vessel name is associated with it.

They are infact issued on identical forms, different sections being completed for the two different classes of licence. Yours is a Ship Radio Licence so the section for a "T" Identification number is blank. If and when you get a Ship Portable Radio Licence you will find the boxes for the vessel name and call sign are left blank.

The application forms are different. One runs to 9 pages, providing the space to list all the items that you may have that have to be licenced, while the other is only 3 pages as it only covers portable radios.

If you only have a Ship Radio Licence you cannot legally use your portable radio on an unlicenced vessel. Technically if your portable radio is not listed on your Ship Radio Licence then you should not be using it with the vessel name and callsign. (I said technically)

As said elsewhere the licences are issued free online so if you have a portable radio there is no good reason not to include it on your Ship Licence and to hold a separate Ship Portable Radio Licence as well. You then use your vessel name and callsign when on board your own vessel and the "T" identification number if on board an unlicenced vessel.

Another difference between the two classes of licence IIRC is that the Ship Radio Licence requires revalidation at smaller intervals than the Ship Portable Radio Licence.

I hope this clarifies matters for you and anyone else who does not understand the "T" licence system. I must admit until relatively recently i did not myself. I asked about it on the forums... where else?

I will add that I am not in anyway defending the system just explaining it!

 

[Emjaytoo]

Very well put, you had the time to spell out what I didn't.

 

[DeeGee]

I am quite clear in how the system works, and I thank Malcb and yourself for reinforcing my understanding. However, I think the point I am making has been missed. I am not referring to how the licencing system operated, but to what the licence says:

<ul type="square"> [*] I only refer to para 6a, as that is the only part of para6 which I am querying, the other methods of identification are not in question.
[*]In Section 2 4 c) is stated that "the schedules form part of this licence"
[*]The ONLY schedule which refers to the operation of ANY portable equipment, including my "hand held portable radio transceiver" and my EPIRB, is Schedule 2, and this includes the T number reference.
[*]If the Portable schedule is not meant to apply, how do I manage to use my portable when in the tender
[/list]
I DO understand what it is supposed to say, but I was querying what it does say.

If OfCom want a separate Ship Portable Radio Licence to distinguish the use of a portable VHF from the use I make of my portable within the context of the Ship Radio Licence, then they should have an appropriate and different schedule.

Lighten up. This is ambiguously worded, that's all. I can live with it, I might have to grit my teeth, but I can just about cope with the ambiguity,

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
This is ambiguously worded

[/ QUOTE ] Sorry but I don't find it ambiguous. Paragraph 6 on p11 that you quoted from is in fact part of "Schedule 2 - applicable to a Ship Portable Radio Licence" which starts on the preceding page. Surely that means if you dont have a Ship Portable Radio Licence it does not apply, thats not ambiguous, so don't read it! If you had one then it would apply and you could use the "T" number, issued with it, when appropriate.

"Schedule 1- applicable to a Ship radio Licence" sarting on p 6 is the section you should be reading where you will find that the first option for identification is the call sign. No mention of "T" numbers, just as there is no mention of callsigns in schedule 2.

No not at all ambiguous. Read the sections that apply, ignore the sections that don't.

Your portable radio should have been included in the Ship Radio Licence. Then it would have been included in the list on p2 and the provisions of Schedule 1 would have applied to it. Basically if it isn't and you dont have a "Ship Portable Radio Licence for it then you cannot legally use it anywhere, tender included.

I must admit it would save the confusion if only the relevant bits were included with the licences.

Time now to do as you advise and lighten up with a beer. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[DeeGee]

OK, clever clogs. Which bit of the 13 pages of radio licence refer to the use of the EPIRB and the VHF Portable Radio which I have. The ambiguity is that I have such items in the "radio equipment listed in Section 1", and Section 2 says that "the Schedules form part of this licence". There is no other part which refers to portable equipmen, or EPIRBs, except this Schedule (included!!). Without Schedule 2, I have nothing to apply to use of HH or EPIRBm so leaving it out would be a bit of a pig.

I repeat that the Schedule (you say Section, but you meant Schedule) does apply, as the preamble states that it does, explicitly.

Tell you what I REALLY think. I think they meant any HH equipment to have a T-number when the rule-writers wrote the stuff, and they forgot when it was put into action. And they have institutionally forgotten forever. If everyone who had a HH got a T-number, it all would make perfect sense. Go on - admit it !!

How did the beer go down? I went to the Paimpol Fête de Chant de Marin last night and sank quuuiiete a few, just got up, and it is 11:00 here! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif