msimms
Member
Would it be possible to trail a Bayliner Capri 2352? If so, what would you use as the towing vehicle? Totota HiLux 3.0TD (grey import) any good?
Thanks for any comments.
Cheers
Mark
Thanks for any comments.
Cheers
Mark
Any Trailer Gurus out there?
- Thread starter msimms
- Start date
Chris771
New member
Can't imagine that it would be any problem if on a decent four wheel trailer.
Have towed a Freeman 24 on Rollercoaster trailer for a number of years firstly with a SWB Landrover (scary beacuse of crude suspension, tail wagged dog), Same boat with Diahatsu 4 Track (no Problem), LWB Trooper (no problem), 2 SWB Landcruisers (no problem) and Ssangyong Musso (no problem). The latter towed my last boat for 3 years (a Skibsplast 23) on the same trailer and, properly balanced, it would tow safely at 50 mph (even reached 60 once on Motorway when not looking at speedo!).
Now tow a Beneteau 760 on a new purpose built SBS 4 wheel trailer (3.5 tonnes total and about 43 feet long total length and 9 feet wide) that is as big as is just legal, and why I stopped at that size of boat. The Ssani tows it at up to 45 mph with no problem, you would not want to go faster with a boat of that size anyway.
My most important observation is either buy a new trailer or one you know the history of. I would never put a good trailer in salt water, always launch in fresh. I once had a grotty old 4 wheel trailer which threw a wheel on Thelwall Viaduct on the M6 on a Sunday afternoon and nearly caused a major pile up. Fortunately no-one was hurt, but it scared me and I went straight out and ordered a new trailer and have bought one with each boat since. When the lives of others are at risk I consider it worth the outlay.
I learned to manoeuvre the first big trailer in an empty car park, reversing it for hours till I could do it easily. Learn how to handle the trailer first, once you have the hang of that, then put the boat on it.
Regards
Chris
www.impact-computers.net/boat/cruiser.htm
Have towed a Freeman 24 on Rollercoaster trailer for a number of years firstly with a SWB Landrover (scary beacuse of crude suspension, tail wagged dog), Same boat with Diahatsu 4 Track (no Problem), LWB Trooper (no problem), 2 SWB Landcruisers (no problem) and Ssangyong Musso (no problem). The latter towed my last boat for 3 years (a Skibsplast 23) on the same trailer and, properly balanced, it would tow safely at 50 mph (even reached 60 once on Motorway when not looking at speedo!).
Now tow a Beneteau 760 on a new purpose built SBS 4 wheel trailer (3.5 tonnes total and about 43 feet long total length and 9 feet wide) that is as big as is just legal, and why I stopped at that size of boat. The Ssani tows it at up to 45 mph with no problem, you would not want to go faster with a boat of that size anyway.
My most important observation is either buy a new trailer or one you know the history of. I would never put a good trailer in salt water, always launch in fresh. I once had a grotty old 4 wheel trailer which threw a wheel on Thelwall Viaduct on the M6 on a Sunday afternoon and nearly caused a major pile up. Fortunately no-one was hurt, but it scared me and I went straight out and ordered a new trailer and have bought one with each boat since. When the lives of others are at risk I consider it worth the outlay.
I learned to manoeuvre the first big trailer in an empty car park, reversing it for hours till I could do it easily. Learn how to handle the trailer first, once you have the hang of that, then put the boat on it.
Regards
Chris
www.impact-computers.net/boat/cruiser.htm
pistonbroke
New member
I use a similar vehicle to tow a range of friends & customers boats, 99% of the time without any problem. I sometimes struggle on a steep slipway due to the problems of having little weight over the rear axle, a problem that is common with most pickups. This is overcome by putting the vehicle into 4wd.
The only other problem that I have experienced is with a badly set up trailer on a motorway, you get the "tail wagging the dog", but this problem applies to all vehicles, not just pick up's.
The only other problem that I have experienced is with a badly set up trailer on a motorway, you get the "tail wagging the dog", but this problem applies to all vehicles, not just pick up's.
lanason
Active member
Decent Trailer is a must - mine was made by Bee-line down in Pembroke - bespoke for my boat. I spoke to the trailer manufacturer before I bought the boat and he instantly knew the boat and the history. Mine is about 2 years old. It has a PIN tow hitch and not the 50mm ball and is rated to 3.5 tonnes cost about £3600.
Chris is right about putting the trailer in Salt Water, it is not recommended - for a number of reasons - the most important is that the bearings corrode up and then seize and secondly the brake shoes get corroded and either stick to the drum or have reduced effectivness. A piece of advice - NEVER leave the handbrake on when the trailer is stored. Always chock the wheels instead and use a wheel clamp. Remember to remove before you pull away !!!
Checking bearings is a real pain, as you ideally dont want the boat on the trailer - the only time that happens is when you are using it. With a 4 wheel trailer you really need to jack up both wheels at the same time. So a flat drive and TWO trolley jacks are best - work on one side then do the other.
I towed Kelisha back from Pembroke with a 7.5 lorry, but I have a Land Crusier Colorado to tow with. Did a quick "out the drive", "round the lanes and back" the other day - was absolutley fine but didnt go about 30mph .... must try a spin down the M5 and back.
Adrian
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Chris is right about putting the trailer in Salt Water, it is not recommended - for a number of reasons - the most important is that the bearings corrode up and then seize and secondly the brake shoes get corroded and either stick to the drum or have reduced effectivness. A piece of advice - NEVER leave the handbrake on when the trailer is stored. Always chock the wheels instead and use a wheel clamp. Remember to remove before you pull away !!!
Checking bearings is a real pain, as you ideally dont want the boat on the trailer - the only time that happens is when you are using it. With a 4 wheel trailer you really need to jack up both wheels at the same time. So a flat drive and TWO trolley jacks are best - work on one side then do the other.
I towed Kelisha back from Pembroke with a 7.5 lorry, but I have a Land Crusier Colorado to tow with. Did a quick "out the drive", "round the lanes and back" the other day - was absolutley fine but didnt go about 30mph .... must try a spin down the M5 and back.
Adrian
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lanason
Active member
Nose weight is the key thing that affects "tail wagging dog" (snaking) - Many years of caravanning has taught me to get nose weight up to around 80% of the max that the tow vechicle can manage. This is harder with a 4 wheel trailer and a boat as the weight is usually at the back (damn great engine) and this is the worst thing. Put weight into the bows or even onto the front part of the trailer under the bow behind the jockey wheel (make sure it wont fall off). Often water tanks are at the bows .... and fuel at the back ..... so keep fuel to a minimum and fill the water tank up............. Weight should be low down in the boat as close to the wheels as possible. The worst place is high up at bow and stern. So dont put a dinghy on the davits .......
if the outfit starts to snake DONT touch the brakes, just take foot off the throttle and let it settle back. Be careful downhill as speed increases without you being aware - use brakes to control speed early.
Finally check the tyre pressures, often forgotton and a major source of snaking.....
Adrian
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if the outfit starts to snake DONT touch the brakes, just take foot off the throttle and let it settle back. Be careful downhill as speed increases without you being aware - use brakes to control speed early.
Finally check the tyre pressures, often forgotton and a major source of snaking.....
Adrian
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BarryH
Active member
Glad some one has touched on wieghts. Forget size and lenght, as long as their within the legal limits your OK. Wieght is the major factor here. I see so many tow cars towing trailers/caravans etc that are blatently to big for them. The accepted norm is max 80% of the towcars kerbside wieght, altho this is actually lower than the limit of the car. I use a range rover for towing and the limit with overun braking is 3.5 tons, but with the air brakes fitted and a drawbar trailer goes upto 7.5tons. Dont fancy that really!
I find its best to carry all the heavy stuff in the car. Anchor, outboard for the dinghy, the dinghy. Keep the car as heavy as poss and the trailer as light as poss. Also get the trailer balanced. Move the load up and down the trailer until you get the nose wieght within the tow cars limit. Closer to the max than the min, altho not right on the limit. Move the winch post if nessersary. This way you'll keep the car level rather than dragging its arse end and the steering wont go all light! Its all a case of balance.
I've towed the boat all over the place and to Ireland where trailer regs don't seem to exsist. If you have an accident and the trailer is over the capacity of the car, you wont be covered by your insurance. Its a good idea to check if your policy covers you for towing as well. And the boat policy for cover while its being transported.
I find its best to carry all the heavy stuff in the car. Anchor, outboard for the dinghy, the dinghy. Keep the car as heavy as poss and the trailer as light as poss. Also get the trailer balanced. Move the load up and down the trailer until you get the nose wieght within the tow cars limit. Closer to the max than the min, altho not right on the limit. Move the winch post if nessersary. This way you'll keep the car level rather than dragging its arse end and the steering wont go all light! Its all a case of balance.
I've towed the boat all over the place and to Ireland where trailer regs don't seem to exsist. If you have an accident and the trailer is over the capacity of the car, you wont be covered by your insurance. Its a good idea to check if your policy covers you for towing as well. And the boat policy for cover while its being transported.
lanason
Active member
Well said Barry - agree with all that.
Dont fill the car up with sleeping bags and duvets !!! Put them in the boat. Not a bad idea to take batteries out of boat and put in car, outboard is best in the car, use a roof rack for the Dinghy, again increases weight of Tow car and reduces trailer and does not take up space in the car. Also dont threaten to put unruly son into trailer as a punishment, although tempting and extremely peaceful, its every so slightly illigal /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.
Make sure your mirrors extend past the width of the boat and you can see down the side, if not put the extension mirrors on. Very important on the motorway when coming down a sliproad or, heaven forbid, overtaking.
Also it is a good idea to take the Canopy down as it reduces the effects of side wind on the outfit .....
Finally remember trailers are not allowed in the outside lane, not that you would expect many many 23 foot boats to be doing 70mph in the outside lane ...............
Adrian
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Dont fill the car up with sleeping bags and duvets !!! Put them in the boat. Not a bad idea to take batteries out of boat and put in car, outboard is best in the car, use a roof rack for the Dinghy, again increases weight of Tow car and reduces trailer and does not take up space in the car. Also dont threaten to put unruly son into trailer as a punishment, although tempting and extremely peaceful, its every so slightly illigal /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.
Make sure your mirrors extend past the width of the boat and you can see down the side, if not put the extension mirrors on. Very important on the motorway when coming down a sliproad or, heaven forbid, overtaking.
Also it is a good idea to take the Canopy down as it reduces the effects of side wind on the outfit .....
Finally remember trailers are not allowed in the outside lane, not that you would expect many many 23 foot boats to be doing 70mph in the outside lane ...............
Adrian
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BarryH
Active member
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>
Finally remember trailers are not allowed in the outside lane, not that you would expect many many 23 foot boats to be doing 70mph in the outside lane ...............
<hr></blockquote>
I'd better keep quiet from now on!!
Finally remember trailers are not allowed in the outside lane, not that you would expect many many 23 foot boats to be doing 70mph in the outside lane ...............
<hr></blockquote>
I'd better keep quiet from now on!!
lanason
Active member
Me too if I changed "Trailer" for "Caravan", you really dont wanna know /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif
Adrian
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Adrian
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jon_bailey
New member
According to my information the HiLux has a max towing weight of 2250kg. Weight of the Bayliner 2352 is 2,132kg (ex trailer) that in practice will be an absolute minimum. Therefore there is just no way this is going to work legally.
As an alternative consider the Nissan Navara. This has a towing capacity of 3000kg is available as a grey import with a 3.0 Tdi engine (Standard uk spec is 2.5 TDi). Now with Bayliner and good 4 wheel trailer (that will wegh 600kg+) total weight will be ok.
All the other advice about trailers is excellent and if you want the name of a good trailer company PM me.
As an alternative consider the Nissan Navara. This has a towing capacity of 3000kg is available as a grey import with a 3.0 Tdi engine (Standard uk spec is 2.5 TDi). Now with Bayliner and good 4 wheel trailer (that will wegh 600kg+) total weight will be ok.
All the other advice about trailers is excellent and if you want the name of a good trailer company PM me.
msimms
Member
Thanks for your responses, looks as if I will have to re-consider the combination due to the weight issue.
Cheers
Mark
Cheers
Mark
msimms
Member
Jon, was the 2250kg figure for the UK 2.4 litre variant? I was hoping that the 3.0 litre would have a little more pulling power. I'll pop up to the dealers later in the week and have a look at the VIN plate if they have one in stock. I'll ask them about the possiblity of getting in a Navara as well, do you know if this came in a five door version as well as a pickup?
Cheers
Mark
Cheers
Mark
duncan
Active member
the hilux is so close structurally to the landcruiser colorado that I would be surprised if it didn't carry the same towing limit. The 3.0td Colorado has a 2800kg limit - I have one and have towed 2000kg all over the place from Plymouth to Loch Lomond, Paimpol to Rosas in the med - with 7 people and self catering gear for 3 weeks!
Absolute key is getting the max weight in the towing vehicle - light bulk in the boat. Nose weight is important but also beware of the angle of your trailer bar to the hitch which is critical on a 4 wheel trailer - you want both sets of wheels working equally for lots of reasons - see many that don't even consider this when hitching up I am afraid.
Final, obvious (I am afraid but worth restating), point - the overall weight of the rig will affect the braking distance more than the speed etc. With high and low ratios, 4wd and lockable diffs on top of a torquey diesel getting going, going up hill and even 80mph on the autoban are no problem. Stopping is, all of it, the first 30 mph doesn't come off quick, and the last 20 takes for ever.......and on this point does anyone know why trailers with disc brakes (a la USA style) are illegal over here? They improve the braking efficency of the trailer no end.
Absolute key is getting the max weight in the towing vehicle - light bulk in the boat. Nose weight is important but also beware of the angle of your trailer bar to the hitch which is critical on a 4 wheel trailer - you want both sets of wheels working equally for lots of reasons - see many that don't even consider this when hitching up I am afraid.
Final, obvious (I am afraid but worth restating), point - the overall weight of the rig will affect the braking distance more than the speed etc. With high and low ratios, 4wd and lockable diffs on top of a torquey diesel getting going, going up hill and even 80mph on the autoban are no problem. Stopping is, all of it, the first 30 mph doesn't come off quick, and the last 20 takes for ever.......and on this point does anyone know why trailers with disc brakes (a la USA style) are illegal over here? They improve the braking efficency of the trailer no end.
AJW
New member
Is it disc brakes on trailers that are illegal over here? I thought it was the electrically actuated brakes that US trailers have that were illegal, whether they are disc or drum? Discs would be a helluva improvement for sure!
Ref. the comments from a number of people about NOT immersing you trailer in salt water. Presumably you have the boat craned / hoisted off? Not a feasible option for a regular trailboater (i.e. the boat lives on the trailer and is launched when you need it.) My RIB lives on its trailer so dunking the whole thing into the briny is unavoidable (its 7.5m long and not a breakback trailer). Key thing is to keep the bearings well stuffed with grease (where possible) and flush out with fresh when you're done.
As I am no mechanic so bearing/brake failure would be beyond my roadside repair abilities, I have invested in the trailer rescue cover from Seastart. Basically run by AA commercial vehicle recovery. Costs £60odd p.a. and well worth it for piece of mind. Your usual vehicle breakdown cover may cover the recovery of boat and trailer if the tow vehicle breaks down but not if the trailer breaks down!
I tow 2200kg with an Isuzu Trooper 3.0TD. Excellent tow vehicle and very stable rig. Tows at 60mph no probs but then it is lighter and smaller than an equivalent motor cruiser.
Cheers,
Alan
Ref. the comments from a number of people about NOT immersing you trailer in salt water. Presumably you have the boat craned / hoisted off? Not a feasible option for a regular trailboater (i.e. the boat lives on the trailer and is launched when you need it.) My RIB lives on its trailer so dunking the whole thing into the briny is unavoidable (its 7.5m long and not a breakback trailer). Key thing is to keep the bearings well stuffed with grease (where possible) and flush out with fresh when you're done.
As I am no mechanic so bearing/brake failure would be beyond my roadside repair abilities, I have invested in the trailer rescue cover from Seastart. Basically run by AA commercial vehicle recovery. Costs £60odd p.a. and well worth it for piece of mind. Your usual vehicle breakdown cover may cover the recovery of boat and trailer if the tow vehicle breaks down but not if the trailer breaks down!
I tow 2200kg with an Isuzu Trooper 3.0TD. Excellent tow vehicle and very stable rig. Tows at 60mph no probs but then it is lighter and smaller than an equivalent motor cruiser.
Cheers,
Alan
Col
New member
Totally agree with all said so far.
Just a couple of pointers worth a mention
1/ Most (all?) boat trailers have adjustable axle position, so you can move then backwards & forwards to gain correct balance. You usually slacken off "U" bolts to do this.
2/ Most USA trailers of the sort supplied by Bayliner are illegal over here, there too wide.
3/ You can buy "bearing buddies" which are a spring loaded grease cap. Not as good as keeping trailer out of water, but will stop water getting in bearings if properly used. Note! wait untill hubs cool down before imersion, as this stops the sudden contraction (caused by cold water) from sucking water past the seals.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/colspics> Cols Picture Album</A>
Just a couple of pointers worth a mention
1/ Most (all?) boat trailers have adjustable axle position, so you can move then backwards & forwards to gain correct balance. You usually slacken off "U" bolts to do this.
2/ Most USA trailers of the sort supplied by Bayliner are illegal over here, there too wide.
3/ You can buy "bearing buddies" which are a spring loaded grease cap. Not as good as keeping trailer out of water, but will stop water getting in bearings if properly used. Note! wait untill hubs cool down before imersion, as this stops the sudden contraction (caused by cold water) from sucking water past the seals.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/colspics> Cols Picture Album</A>
jon_bailey
New member
Mark,
It was the same for all the UK variants 2.4, 2.5 and 2.7
Unfortunately towing capacity is not just linked to engine size there are other more important features, e.g. brakes! If the Toyota is imported from OZ or NZ they have their own classifications and according to a OZ web site the towing limit for the 3.0L is only 1800kg - not at all helpful.
If you are asking for five doors are you sure you are talking about the HiLux? I though this was only available as a pick-up like the Navara. Nissan also do a couple of five doors. The Terrano is good and is currently my wife's car that we use for towing. Towing capacity is about 2.7T. If you start going up in size then Landcruisers, Range Rovers etc will pull 3.5T.
Jon
It was the same for all the UK variants 2.4, 2.5 and 2.7
Unfortunately towing capacity is not just linked to engine size there are other more important features, e.g. brakes! If the Toyota is imported from OZ or NZ they have their own classifications and according to a OZ web site the towing limit for the 3.0L is only 1800kg - not at all helpful.
If you are asking for five doors are you sure you are talking about the HiLux? I though this was only available as a pick-up like the Navara. Nissan also do a couple of five doors. The Terrano is good and is currently my wife's car that we use for towing. Towing capacity is about 2.7T. If you start going up in size then Landcruisers, Range Rovers etc will pull 3.5T.
Jon
msimms
Member
Jon,
It is available as a five door, imported from Japan - follow the link if you'd like to see one:
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.japanesecarimporters.co.uk/database/full.php?timename=1034199575> Toyota Hilux </A>
I quite like the Hilux, most of the creature comforts and 30+ mpg which doesn't seem bad for the size. The Prado was the second choice but a little more expensive to buy and run.
I notice they have a Terrano in stock at the moment I'll give it a look over.
Cheers
Mark
It is available as a five door, imported from Japan - follow the link if you'd like to see one:
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.japanesecarimporters.co.uk/database/full.php?timename=1034199575> Toyota Hilux </A>
I quite like the Hilux, most of the creature comforts and 30+ mpg which doesn't seem bad for the size. The Prado was the second choice but a little more expensive to buy and run.
I notice they have a Terrano in stock at the moment I'll give it a look over.
Cheers
Mark
jon_bailey
New member
Oh Yea! Havn't the faintest idea what the towing weight will be though.
As I'm now trying to sell a Japanese import just remember that they normally depreciate as quickly as a prop nut sinks.
As I'm now trying to sell a Japanese import just remember that they normally depreciate as quickly as a prop nut sinks.
