Any thoughts please

[NUTMEG]

Jamie usually does the passage planning using Crossing the Thames Estuary book but I thought I would have a go. This is what I have come up with. First attempt so please be gentle with me.

Leaving Bradwell at 07:00 on Thursday morning and arriving at Ramsgate at 18:30. Av spd 4kts.

Although just looked at the weather and thing it might be a bit lumpy so might put it off until Sunday AM.

Does this look reasonable?

ps, assuming my picture shows up!

 

[Tomahawk]

Looks reasonable.
At the moment it looks like 3-4 northerly. Beam reach to the Sunk.. then behind you.
leaving at half tide arriving near the Sunk near HW ish...

Enjoy

 

[Bru]

I haven't looked at the timings but I am curious as to whether the omission of the dogleg through Foulger's Gat is deliberate?

 

[NUTMEG]

Thanks for looking Erbus, but the root does use Foulgers Gat according to Navionics. The dogleg, to the south, I am sure I read, was 'dicouraged'. Stand to be corrected

 

[ianfr]

We went through the SW sunk route using the waypoints provided by Tillergirl. Saves about 4 miles and we went through at HW + 3 and there was about 8 metres of water at the shallowest. (neaps)
We also went along the edge of Fishermans Gat which is a nice easy straight line .

Its a bit nervy first time crossing a part of the chart that is marked green, but both time we went across it was calmish. Interesting to see as we went south that there was a distinct difference in the water a hundred yards or so to the west, where the water was shallower

We did Tollesbury to Ramsgate in 8 hours and 15 minutes and very similar on return.

Ian

 

[tillergirl]

Thanks for looking Erbus, but the root does use Foulgers Gat according to Navionics. The dogleg, to the south, I am sure I read, was 'dicouraged'. Stand to be corrected

Umm yes, correction coming.... Dogleg is necessary in the view of the 'Authorities', that's why they put three buoys in. Please see the London Array download on my Updates page. IT'S FREE. :encouragement:

The view of the London Array is that tidal scour is causing up to 2 metre scouring around some of the bases. It is too early to say where this scour will be deposited but generally it is thought that it will be between the turbines. So although it is permissible to ignore the dogleg because there is only a 50m advisory zone around each commissioned turbine (unless work is taking place), the Wind Farm recommendations last year were to stick to the 'avenue' now marked with the three safe water marks. It's your call.

The route

Fine. You can do more of a diagonal through the Spitway. You can do that anyway but particularly so at your intended timing since you will have a lot of tide there. It is not the shortest route though. That would be from the Spitway to cross the Swin to the north-eat corner of the East Barrow and then turn south heading for the SW Sunk swatchway. This has moved this year but the details are shown on the download on my Updates page (IT'S FREE :encouragement. I sense a reluctance with the SW Sunk this year because the latest plotters and Admiralty charts show green land where I am saying there is a swatchway. A couple of club members who are going across on Friday wanted to look me in the eyes and get my confirmation that that is where the crossing is. anyway, 'tis for you to make up your mind but the SW Sunk and Fisherman's Gat is 3nm shorter. The PLA used to discourage us from using Fisherman's Gat and that may be the discouragement you recall rather than the dogleg. But that discouragement was issued before they dredged the Princes Channel (which saw commercial shipping reduce in Fisherman's) and there is ample room outside the marked buoyage for us. You just need to make sure that when you arrive at the Precautionary Area which is the corner twix the Black Deep and Fisherman's that you stay out of the way of things like this:



HMS ? (I've forgotten her name) is here turning from the Black Deep into Fisherman's having come out of London. But you can see this stuff in good vis for miles, they are moving blocks of flats after all, and you can listen to London VTS to get the picture of water is moving. Big stuff reports it's movements inwards at Long Sand Head and the Outer Fisherman and outwards as they clear around the Oaze. Channel 69.

Timing

Weeelll! There is a tendency to martyrdom with the timing. My tables start from the waypoint off Sales Point and I appreciate that you have to clear the Marina and get adjacent to that which is about 2.5nm give or take a knat's do-da and my calcs assuming an hour and a half to tend to lines, fenders and whatnots getting you to the approx area of the waypoint (not necessary to get there of course) means that you are departing down towards the Bench Head at 3 hours before HW Sheerness. A couple of hours of adverse tide facing you and then whilst it's not adverse across the Swin, it not at its best mates rates either. I think your plotter calculates an 11hr 30 min passage, my tables suggest10 hrs 30 mins. BUT, if you departed the vicinity of the waypoint at HW Sheerness (which I see is 1126BST), you get a helping ebb to the Spitway and all across the Swin to the Sunk Sand crossing point over the Little Sunk (see the chartlet on my Updates page - IT'S FREE :encouragement. And then, joy of joys, you start to pick up that swooping arc of flood that sweeps you down to North Foreland and past it to Ramsgit. Suggested passage time 8 hours 17 minutes! And a northly wind, joy of joy in excelsis. Imagine that beam reach across the Swin. Perfick (provided it's not too strong).

I accept the argument that I think it was prv put up on another post that you are up anyway so you might as well go sailing - especially with a nice favourable wind. Doesn't happen that often.

So the answer to your question is 'yeap that will work'!

Did I say that the downloads on my Updates page were FREE :encouragement:

 

[ianfr]

SW Sunk is a doddle HONEST!!!

Thanks for the hard work Roger.

Ian

 

[NUTMEG]

How much do you charge for updates, tillergirl?

 

[tillergirl]

How much do you charge for updates, tillergirl?

Just have a good passage.

 

[tillergirl]

We went through the SW sunk route using the waypoints provided by Tillergirl. Saves about 4 miles and we went through at HW + 3 and there was about 8 metres of water at the shallowest. (neaps)
We also went along the edge of Fishermans Gat which is a nice easy straight line .

Its a bit nervy first time crossing a part of the chart that is marked green, but both time we went across it was calmish. Interesting to see as we went south that there was a distinct difference in the water a hundred yards or so to the west, where the water was shallower

We did Tollesbury to Ramsgate in 8 hours and 15 minutes and very similar on return.

Ian

I think that is a good point about the distinct difference to the west on southern part of the swatchway. It is a ridge of sand I think that does not uncover. This image is not the best as it is difficult to get the camera high enough when you also have to steer. This still shows how close to the bank you can get (but it's not necessary) and the colour of the water indicating the depth. I am heading north parallel to Mystique's Knoll about half way across. Lonely init?

 

[NUTMEG]

Thanks all. In particular Roger, your book is a work of true genius. Really, I mean it!

Must admit it makes my brain hurt but Jamie and I are sitting down tomorrow to rework our passage plan down and back. When you refer to "departing waypoint at HW Sheerness, I assume you mean the Blackwater Landfall waypoint. Or am I being thick again

Thanks again.

Steve

 

[tillergirl]

That's it.

All the times relate to HW Sheerness. In that way the book can be used in perpetuity - provided you know the time of HW Sheerness.

I know all those figures can get a bit mind numbing. I have been working on automation and have 'invented' this



It is possible to select the boat speed from a dropdown menu, ditto Springs or Neaps and the start time at 15 minute intervals. The result is instantaneous. The trouble is it uses several 'orrible formulae within Excel (like this: =IF(AND(D4="7 Kts",H4="Springs"),VLOOKUP(E9,'7 Kts'!B2722,2),IF(AND(D4="7 Kts",H4="Neaps"),VLOOKUP(E9,'7 Kts'!B7241444,2),IF(AND(D4="6 Kts",H4="Springs"),VLOOKUP(E9,'6 Kts'!B2722,2),IF(AND(D4="6 Kts",H4="Neaps"),VLOOKUP(E9,'6 Kts'!B7241444,2),IF(AND(D4="5 Kts",H4="Springs"),VLOOKUP(E9,'5 Kts'!B2722,2),IF(AND(D4="5 Kts",H4="Neaps"),VLOOKUP(E9,'5 Kts'!B7241444,2),IF(AND(D4="4 Kts",H4="Springs"),VLOOKUP(E9,'4 Kts'!B2722,2),IF(AND(D4="4 Kts",H4="Neaps"),VLOOKUP(E9,'4 Kts'!B7221444,2),IF(AND(D4="3 Kts",H4="Springs"),VLOOKUP(E9,'3 Kts'!B2722,2),VLOOKUP(E9,'3 Kts'!B7221444,2)))))))))) and at the moment I can't fit it into a secure web based application. Maybe one day.

 

[Koeketiene]

HMS ? (I've forgotten her name) is here turning from the Black Deep into Fisherman's having come out of London.

Albion or Bulwark

[\anorak]

 

[tillergirl]

Bulwark. That was it. Thanks. There was some exemplary RT comms with London VTS so it was easy to know where she was going.