Any ideas on how to free up mast winches?

Yeoman_24

Yeoman_24

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I have two mast winches on my Moody 30 (can't remember if they are Lewmar 7 or 8). One has the furling Genoa halyard wrapped around it and the other has the main halyard around it. I also have a mounting point for a third winch. All lines (except Genoa and main sheets0 aro controlled at the mast.

I also have a spare spinnaker halyard which I would use for an MOB recovery option, a topping lift and, having converted from Proctor roller boom reefing to slab reefing, have 2 reefing lines leading from the leach to the gooseneck end of the boom where each is cleated.

I'm thinking of using a jammer of somekind each side of the mast to secure the raised and tensioned Main and Genoa halyards to free up the winches for other tasks.

Any suggestions for cheap jammer options or any other solution ideas? Cheers.
 
You might get away with Cam Cleats but really you need clutches. Not cheap but work and can be attached to the mast by drilling and tapping M6 holes. That is what I have for my main halyard. I used a Spinlock one.
 
http://www.rivetsinstock.com/rivet-nuts-threaded-inserts/not-ribbed-countersunk-head-rivet-nuts.html

image006.jpg
 
Tranona said:
You don't need that. Selden recommend just drilling and tapping into the mast wall.

If you are going to suggest something helpful if you explain why rather than just posting a link otherwise how is the OP supposed to understand?
Click to expand...

I would have thought those pix were self explanatory & give more thread length that tapping into 3mm of mast wall

Oh & there was a link provided too
 
I have one clutch for main halyard and that does slip a bit so I wrap halyard around a horn cleat as well. I don't like the clutch at all. It was given to me. I have 4x cheap winches for halyards which along with horn cleats I find most useful and easy to use although I do drop jib for spin runs so tend to adjust jib halyard a lot.
For a furling jib presumably you have a horn cleat for the tail after the winch. Because the halyard is semi permanent you could just try sweating down the halyard around the cleat. One hand pulls the halyard around the bottom of the cleat to get friction on the rope the other pulls the middle of the halyard out then release getting the slack taken up on the cleat.
it can be effective. Of course forgive me if you are aware of this way to sweat up the halyard.
Alternatively you might try attaching a handy billy tackle to an over hand knot in the halyard and tension it down that way.
or look for another cheap winch.
You will probably want to keep the main halyard on a winch as it is the easiest way to tension the main halyard each time you set the main. good luck olewill
 
sailorman said:
I would have thought those pix were self explanatory & give more thread length that tapping into 3mm of mast wall

Oh & there was a link provided too
Click to expand...

You may have thought it was self explanatory, but first why do you think they are necessary, and how is the OP supposed to make the connection.
 
William_H said:
For a furling jib presumably you have a horn cleat for the tail after the winch. Because the halyard is semi permanent you could just try sweating down the halyard around the cleat. One hand pulls the halyard around the bottom of the cleat to get friction on the rope the other pulls the middle of the halyard out then release getting the slack taken up on the cleat.
it can be effective. Of course forgive me if you are aware of this way to sweat up the halyard.
Click to expand...
Sometimes it takes someone to state the obvious as it is easy to over look it when considering ideas. Sweating and tightening on the cleat is the idea for me for the more permanant Genoa halyard with perhaps a clutch for the main halyard. Great advice. Thanks all
 
I fitted Lewmar clutches for both the Genoa and main halliard on my Moody 33. They work well - well worth the expense(bought cheaply from ebay a few years ago. Both winches are then freed up for other work, the genoa winch can be used for the spinnaker halliard when I use it(rarely) and the mainsail winch is used for both mainsail winching(obviously) and when reefing for tightening the outhaul reefing lines in conjunction with the under-boom jammers and an open turning block screwed to the mast to get the correct lead. .
 
I have found the Spinlock mini jammers work well. They can handle 6 - 10 mm and up to 400 Kg. I have a double one just above the genoa side mast winch on my Seal 28. F4 have them.
 
We have 2 winches on the mast which need to operate the lazy jacks, topping lift, screacher, spinnaker and headsail. The main and reefing lines come back to the cockpit. We use clutches for high loads on the mast, but keep the halyard engaged on the winch, specifically the screacher, whenever possible or almost all the time. The halyard is thus held by both the clutch and the winch. We have a clutch and horn cleat for the spinnaker. We use clamcleats, those 'v' shaped devices, and in line horn cleats for the lazy jacks and topping lift. The horn cleats need to be 'closer' to the mast and then the halyard (or tail of the lazy jack in our case) is forced into the clamcleat.

You want to try to keep the lines, halyards, lazy jacks, topping lift etc all running in straightlines. If they are off line you have a chance of abrasion. This might mean you have, whatever you install, one above the other, slightly off line - but to keep the run as straight as possible - if that makes sense!

If you are drilling the mast - make sure the holes are offset from each other - or a series of holes all at the same level will weaken the mast. It might not look so pretty but its stronger!

And if you use Duralac you might be able to take the fittings off in the future.

Jonathan
 
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Yes,

The lazy jacks originally replaced a topping lift, which worked fine until one, side, of the lazy jacks failed. We had the spare sheave at the crane so added a topping lift. Being a fan of belt and braces we still use the lazy jacks as part of the boom support. If anything fails, during a reef, it wipes out the GPS aerial, TV aerial, stern light, cause severe damage to the cabin roof and might wipe out crew. Having a pretty fail safe system to keep the boom up - seems cautious.

The main is 45m^2 - its not small for 2 people.

Edit - I see where you are coming from - but if I stand on the cabin roof, in a flat calm, its not easy to lift the end of the boom (would not want to do it unaided in any sort of sea) - but then I'm a wimp - and as I say I like the idea that if one system fails I have a back-up.

I have this idea, at the back of my mind, that using lazy jacks as a topping lift is a French idea?

close edit.

Jonathan
 
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Neeves said:
Yes,

The lazy jacks originally replaced a topping lift, which worked fine until one, side, of the lazy jacks failed. We had the spare sheave at the crane so added a topping lift. Being a fan of belt and braces we still use the lazy jacks as part of the boom support. If anything fails, during a reef, it wipes out the GPS aerial, TV aerial, stern light, cause severe damage to the cabin roof and might wipe out crew. Having a pretty fail safe system to keep the boom up - seems cautious.

The main is 45m^2 - its not small for 2 people.

Edit - I see where you are coming from - but if I stand on the cabin roof, in a flat calm, its not easy to lift the end of the boom (would not want to do it unaided in any sort of sea) - but then I'm a wimp - and as I say I like the idea that if one system fails I have a back-up.

I have this idea, at the back of my mind, that using lazy jacks as a topping lift is a French idea?

close edit.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
I fitted a Barton Boom Strut which takes the weight of the boom and mainsail easily thus freeing up the topping lift which is tied to the stern rail as an emergency main halliard. The boom strut makes for dead easy reefing. Well worth the expense.
 
We had a boom strut when we raced - and as you say a real boon.

We have a cat and the mast sits, deck stepped, in a recess in the forward cabin roof, its a common design feature on cats. There is a vertical panel directly behind the mast, its actually got a window in it. But there is not the right shape of space to fit a boom strut. It would be possible 'high up' from the boom base but then the load on the strut would be huge.

Without the topping lift and lazy jacks the boom could sit on the side deck, if the main is not hoisted, but if the cat were at sea it would slide around and could seriously damage the cabin which sits well up above the side decks. If we are at sea and reefing the main hold the boom off, above, the side decks and it swings around like a pendulum, as you would expect, and is a real liability without support (which we found when one side of the lazy jacks failed (prompting installation of the topping lift).

When we bought the cat it seemed a good idea, but might have ben part of the paring down of price. It was not a good idea.

I've never heard of a topping lift failing and ours is secured with a clutch and a horn cleat. The lazy jacks are secured with a clam cleat, those 'V' shaped things and a horn cleat - and the rope can come out of the 'v", hence the horn cleats.

On a cat the screecher, code zero, loads are huge and if you only use a clutch the inner core of the halyard, dyneema, can slip even though the outer braid is secured. When this happens the outer core breaks and the inner core no longer has support. Been there, done that, on a bigger cat. Standard practice is to use both the clutch and winch, never taking tension off the winch.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
On a cat the screecher, code zero, loads are huge and if you only use a clutch the inner core of the halyard, dyneema, can slip even though the outer braid is secured. When this happens the outer core breaks and the inner core no longer has support. Been there, done that, on a bigger cat. Standard practice is to use both the clutch and winch, never taking tension off the winch.
Click to expand...

For lower halyard loads on smalłer boats, clutches are the best answer.

However, clutches, especially the affordable models, have relatively low SWLs and are not suitable for all halyards on larger yachts. A halyard pin stop car is the most common solution, although there are other options such as jammers and some of the high end clutches are OK providing the sail area is not too large. A 2:1 purchase is sometimes used to reduce the load.

If buying a new yacht it is worth checking if the SWL of the clutches is suitable. It is not unusual for boatbuilders to fit smaller, underspecified, and therefore cheaper clutches.

IMG_1223_zpskyowjh31.jpg
 
Most modern screecher halyards, on even small cats, are 2:1. Ours is a 45m^2 headsail and we have always had 2:1 halyards, also 2:1 for a similarly sized main. Our genoa is a conventional, single, 1:1 halyard

As long as you keep the halyard on the winch - there are no issues and this is common multihull practice (which might be alien to monohulls).

Jonathan
 
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