Any advice on removing the mizzen?

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rascacio

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I'm looking for some advice from more experienced sailors with a view to removing the mizzen on my Columbia 45. When they were built the 45 came in three configurations ie 1 Std keel tall rig. 2 shallow keel tall rig and 3 std keel ketch. The main mast on the ketch is approx 7' shorter than the standard. The standard sail plan at the time had approx 814sqft of sail and the ketch had 770sqft. Now on my boat the genoa is a 150% and between the main and genoa i have 825sqft and the mizzen gives an extra 103sqft. The reason I want to remove the mizzen is that after living aboard for 3 years I did not really use it that much and as the transom is quite narrow by modern standards it is very cluttered with the rigging,mast and boom. When using the mizzen it only really gave a very small increase and I think the space could be better used for access and convenience. So if anyone has done the same or can give some advice I would be most grateful
 
You should try to establish whether your mainmast is in the same position fore and aft (i.e. relative to keel and rudder) as the mast of a sloop/cutter rigged equivalent. You may well find that your ketch mainmast is a bit further forrard so that doing away with the mizzen unbalances the rig. I would keep it if it was designed that way.
 
Thanks for your reply, however I have all the original drawings for all of these boats and all mast positions are identical. As is the keel,rudder etc. The boat was originally designed as a sloop (By Bill Tripp Snr ) and the ketch was basically an after market option.
 
Doing away with the mizzen would deprive you of the opportunity of sailing with jib and mizzen alone.

How long have you had the boat? I certainly wouldn't want to take such a drastic step until I had sailed her in a very wide range of conditions.
 
To decide this you need to answer some questions.

1) Are the main and mizzen masts completely independently stayed? If you have a stay connecting the two masts, then a back-stay from the mizzen, you will need to have a new back-stay made, and I suggest that you need professional advice.

2) Does your boat sail without using the mizzen sail, in a well balanced way on all points of sail? If it does then you don't really need the mizzen except for three possible scenarios. To provide extra sail area in light winds, as a riding sail at anchor, and well reefed in conjunction with a small foresail (and no mainsail) in heavy weather.

If you do decide to remove the mizzen then I suggest you should carefully store all the parts, in case you, or a future owner, want to replace them. It would be a very expensive business if you do not.
 
I haven't owned a Columbia 45 but I've looked at a couple. I belive the triatic stay is there to support the mizzen and that the main mast has its own backstays. If the mast position is the same for ketch and sloop this tells you that the mizzen is, indeed, an afterthought and could be removed with little effect, other than the limitation of the shorter mast.
 
Sorry had to leave the forum duty called. Yes Saltyjohn the triatic is for the mizzen and the mainmast has its own stays. And thanks Norman_E she sails perfectly well without the mizzen and I find her easier to handle in heavy weather (we were caught in 56Kn of wind off Ibeza.Scary) with a small stormsail and no jib. However when close hauled in 20/25 Kn the mizzen does help with the steering so it's a trade off. If it was removed i would definitely store the bits.
And Twister_Ken my GPS and radar are on the mizzen but I would build a new stainless contraption at the stern to take all that as well as solar panels and outboard winch(we use mizzen halyard at the mo) and it's a centre cockpit and has a bimini.
Anyway thanks to everyone I think I'll keep it for a while and see how it goes this summer before finally deciding.
 
Our friend sailed a Trintella (Arianwen) with a centre cockpit. He told me they were usually rigged with a mizzen, but he never fitted a mizzen mast to his Trintella. He sailed her for many years and covered a lot of ground. She always handled very well in all weathers and certainly did not suffer for the lack of a mizzen.
 
I have a Halberdier Ketch (36ft 10T), and find like you that the mizzen provides very little in terms of performance yet gets in the way rather a lot.

Admitted I usually sail single handed and so find the extra work in setting the mizzen a bit of a fag. Another problem is that the boom yets in the way of the wind vane steering.

I would seriously think of taking if off and storing it ( easy enough to do ?) except I have my Air-X and TV aerial mounted on the front ....:-)

PS it doesnt help my weather helm issues either !

Regards Nick
 
Similar view to others above - my Evasion 32 is a ketch and doesn't really need the mizzen for most sailing conditions, other than when beating, where is does help enourmously. My dilema is that the sail is knackered and has torn several times recently, so need to spend several hundred pounds replacing it - makes you think! Some other advantages I have found is that, with all my mainsail rigging being worked from the mast, it is easy to sail her short-handed with the genoa and mizzen only. These 2 sails can both be worked without leaving the cockpit. One final point is that she looks better proportioned (note - didn't say good looking...!!) under full sail. I would also like a boom tent (a conservatory?) so the mizzen does have some uses.
 
Paul, don't you find that the mizzen at anchor helps to stabilise you?
 
Hi David I've found the mizzen of limited stabilising use as it cannot be goosed out far enough due to the rigging and when tucked in a bay with the swell curling around the headland it wont go out far enough to push us off the wind so we still lie more on the wind and take the swell on the side. I've found it better to drop a kedge to accomodate the swell. Anyway I'm still debating with the issue but wont make a hasty decision !! I think you'd agree that it would open up the back end of our boat no end with virtually no reduction in performance.
 
Hi Paul, yes, I think it would open it out a bit but you would lose safety and some stability. There are a lot of ketch-lovers around (thinking resale when the time comes) and anyway seems a pity to de-ketch a nice ketch. A bit of a ketch-up /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Say hi to Steph and Niamh from us both.

Sell the axe
 
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