Any advantage to be gained - antifoul

chasroberts

chasroberts

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Just having a read through some old threads on antifoul and a recurring opinion is that there is not much to choose between the brands apart from the copper content. Got me wondering if there's any point in 'topping up' the copper content by the addition of say powdered copper to the paint before applying? East Coast Fibreglass supplies do 250gr for just over a fiver. Any thoughts on this as a proposition - worth it - waste of money?

Chas
 
Bet International hadn't thought of that! Seriously, if it were worthwhile, the paint manufacturers would surely be doing it already?
 
pvb said:
Bet International hadn't thought of that! Seriously, if it were worthwhile, the paint manufacturers would surely be doing it already?
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They might have thought of it, but wouldn't be able to turn a decent profit if they did. It could be one of those things that would work, but just wouldn't be economically viable? My guess though, is that the powder you can buy would be too coarse to work effectively in a paint. I think you need almost microscopic particles of copper "dust"?
 
chasroberts said:
Just having a read through some old threads on antifoul and a recurring opinion is that there is not much to choose between the brands apart from the copper content. Got me wondering if there's any point in 'topping up' the copper content by the addition of say powdered copper to the paint before applying? East Coast Fibreglass supplies do 250gr for just over a fiver. Any thoughts on this as a proposition - worth it - waste of money?

Chas
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Its cuprous oxide in most antifouling paints ITYWF, rather than metallic copper, except for a few which contain cuprous thiocyanate.

How about mixing copper powder with an epoxy resin an applying that. Get the composition right and you should be able to make an antifouling coating that will be effective for several years.
 
VicS said:
How about mixing copper powder with an epoxy resin an applying that. Get the composition right and you should be able to make an antifouling coating that will be effective for several years.
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Hmmm, good idea, copper in a coating - any thoughts on what to call it? ;)
 
pvb said:
Wouldn't that affect Coppercoat too?
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The main difference is that Coppercoat doesn't erode except in microscopic quantities.
I believe that Coppercoat is nonetheless limited to a certain proportion of Cu in the mix. 50% rings a bell, although this increases as the binding epoxy cures/dries, since it is solvent-based (actually, water-based).
 
macd said:
The main difference is that Coppercoat doesn't erode except in microscopic quantities.
I believe that Coppercoat is nonetheless limited to a certain proportion of Cu in the mix. 50% rings a bell, although this increases as the binding epoxy cures/dries, since it is solvent-based (actually, water-based).
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I bought EU45 a few years ago. One of the selling points was that it contained copper to the legal maximum, which this datasheet seems to give as somewhere around 45% http://www.eu45antifoul.com/docs/techspecs_eng.pdf

We did not find that its high copper content gave it better antifouling properties. In about ten seasons in the Med I think we have probably used ten different antifoulings on the hull, none being particularly outstanding. The keel was Coppercoated well before we arrived in the Med, excellent performance until rust got beneath it after about 10 years. A second application after full keel treatment is still going well, five years on.
 
macd said:
The main difference is that Coppercoat doesn't erode except in microscopic quantities.
I believe that Coppercoat is nonetheless limited to a certain proportion of Cu in the mix. 50% rings a bell, although this increases as the binding epoxy cures/dries, since it is solvent-based (actually, water-based).
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Correct on the leeching.
Limit is 2kg per litre.
And that's what you get.
 
chasroberts said:
Just having a read through some old threads on antifoul and a recurring opinion is that there is not much to choose between the brands apart from the copper content. Got me wondering if there's any point in 'topping up' the copper content by the addition of say powdered copper to the paint before applying? East Coast Fibreglass supplies do 250gr for just over a fiver. Any thoughts on this as a proposition - worth it - waste of money?

Chas
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not legal, but how could you get caught. Paint manufacturers cant do it though.
 
bitbaltic said:
If it doesn't work the OP has only hazarded a fiver. Sounds interesting to me. Worth a shot to determine if legal limit is the same as effective limit?
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But how would the OP know whether the addition of the powdered copper had made any difference (in either direction) compared with the unmodified antifouling?
Because fouling differs from place to place and time to time it would not be valid to compare the results from one season to the next. He would have to paint the hull with alternate stripes of modified and unmodified antifouling to compare them. (No, it wouldn't do to paint the port side with one and the starboard side with the other, as people regularly report differential fouling on opposite sides.) Would it be worth the effort?
 
chasroberts said:
Just having a read through some old threads on antifoul and a recurring opinion is that there is not much to choose between the brands apart from the copper content. Got me wondering if there's any point in 'topping up' the copper content by the addition of say powdered copper to the paint before applying? East Coast Fibreglass supplies do 250gr for just over a fiver. Any thoughts on this as a proposition - worth it - waste of money?

Chas
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It's been discussed and tried a few times... also curry/chilli powder...

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?85345-Copper-powder
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?254048-copper-powder
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?218094-that-magical-250-micron-copper-powder

...let us know how you get on at the end of next season if you do...!
 
VicS said:
Its cuprous oxide in most antifouling paints ITYWF, rather than metallic copper, except for a few which contain cuprous thiocyanate.

How about mixing copper powder with an epoxy resin an applying that. Get the composition right and you should be able to make an antifouling coating that will be effective for several years.
Click to expand...

There must be a lot of ESP around.

Last week I mixed up two small batches of resin epoxy the other being polyester. both padded out with copper slip that had been washed with meth's to partially degrease. Checked last night and found the epoxy is still slightly soft, the polyester set hard within the normal curing time.

Finish. The epoxy went on to a gel coat finish with a dull lustre. The polyester has a rough surface finish but is bright copper shine.

Toying with the idea of coating the steel rudder with a thin coat of polyester as it gave a better finish. also to see how marine growth will react especially Barnacle's.
 
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