billyfish
Active member
How long does antifreeze last ? Mines 2 years old. Should I renew? I know it was a annual job but I'm sure I read it could go longer now.
Antifreeze
- Thread starter billyfish
- Start date
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I just Googled it & it suggested 120 Months or 140,000 miles in a car.
Seems a long time for a boat, Especially as Beta- for instance- suggests that the heat exchanger be flushed annually.
In doing that one might lose some fluid & add some fresh when topping up.
I expect that with the typical marine engine the expansion tank might want topping with some fresh coolant from time to time. If this included a strong antifreeze solution the need to flush the whole may be reduced . Say 3-4 years.
I would err towards a bi annual flush, as I do seem to get sludge from somewhere, even though it is a sealed system. That makes the life of the actual antifreeze somewhate irrelevant
But still an interesting query & a definitive answer would be nice
Seems a long time for a boat, Especially as Beta- for instance- suggests that the heat exchanger be flushed annually.
In doing that one might lose some fluid & add some fresh when topping up.
I expect that with the typical marine engine the expansion tank might want topping with some fresh coolant from time to time. If this included a strong antifreeze solution the need to flush the whole may be reduced . Say 3-4 years.
I would err towards a bi annual flush, as I do seem to get sludge from somewhere, even though it is a sealed system. That makes the life of the actual antifreeze somewhate irrelevant
But still an interesting query & a definitive answer would be nice
Plum
Well-known member
If you are just concerned about it's antifreeze qualities then just extract a small amount (dip small tube into filler, finger over the top, lift out. Repeat until you have an egg-cup amount) then put it in the freezer at home to see if it works at -18C. What you can't easily test for is the health of the corrosion inhibitors, for that you can only be guided by the coolant manufacturer's replacement interval.
www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
AndrewB
Well-known member
Not that Beta are at all helpful here. I tried to flush my 2-year old Beta 35 this year. The coolant wouldn't come out of the drain tap, even after removing the tap and pumping.
I rang Beta. "Ah yes, a known problem. Kubota fits too narrow a drain and it blocks. Try pumping it out from the heat exchanger." So, it's not Beta's fault, they only sell the engines, blame it on someone else. Pumping out from the heat exchanger can get only one-third of the coolant out. Similarly by opening the calorifier fittings.
In the end I emptied the heat exchanger, topped up with tap water, turned the engine over briefly, then repeated this half a dozen times to help flush out the old coolant. On the final pass I topped up with concentrated antifreeze rather than water. A laborious and unsatisfactory solution (and I don't like using tap water in the engine). Any other ideas much appreciated!
wombat88
Well-known member
On older VWs that use G13 pink stuff they recommend changing it every 2-4 years (can't remember which) this in not so much for its anti freeze properties but to keep its anti corrosion properties up to scratch.
It will also get diluted if you are in the habit of topping up levels with plain water.
It will also get diluted if you are in the habit of topping up levels with plain water.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I have a Beta 30, in one of my boats, so I assume it probably has the similar crank case. Fortunately, I had no problem draining the old fluid. I see that you have removed the tap assembly. Did not clearing the hole with a bent wire to clear the sludge work? Usually does.
alahol2
Well-known member
I had a similar problem on a Beta 13, After removing the tap, I poked around with a bit of monel seizing wire. It didn't take long before getting the water flowing. It was fairly brown and murkey. Since then I've had no problems draining the fluid. I do it every couple of years (approx).
thinwater
Well-known member
(Many years in the industry as a chemical engineer an one formulation patent. The UK engine coolant standards committee merged with the US ASTM committee ~ 20 years ago, and I was very active.)
Engine coolant. Antifreeze is what you use to keep pipes from freezing.
The primary age determinant with marine engines is contamination with seawater. Chloride contamination is probably the most lethal failure for fresh water cooled engines, and it takes only a few ounces to cause a failure (50 ppm max in used coolant, or 0.25% seawater). This is the reason most manufactures specify annual changes, on the same engine that uses 5-year changes on dry land. This is the main reason coolants are blended with distilled water, not tap water.
A lab test will tell you.
Engine coolant. Antifreeze is what you use to keep pipes from freezing.
The primary age determinant with marine engines is contamination with seawater. Chloride contamination is probably the most lethal failure for fresh water cooled engines, and it takes only a few ounces to cause a failure (50 ppm max in used coolant, or 0.25% seawater). This is the reason most manufactures specify annual changes, on the same engine that uses 5-year changes on dry land. This is the main reason coolants are blended with distilled water, not tap water.
A lab test will tell you.
Amlov
Active member
Easiest is just to pull one of the hoses off, either just under the heat exchanger or by the oil filter. If you are careful you can catch most of the coolant.
VicS
Well-known member
You should follow the recommendation in your Owners manual/ service schedule
I believe you have a VP D1-30.
For older versions of the engine, for which a conventional type of antifreeze was specified, the recommended interval is every 500 hours or at least once every 2 years . This should not be exceeded because the inhibitors are not sufficiently stable
An OAT / long life antifreeze is specified for later engines. I dont know the recommended interval as I don't have the service schedule. Although the inhibitors are more stable, giving up to 10 years life in a car, the recommended interval should not be exceeded due to the risk of contamination of the cooling system with sea water.
Generally dont mix the two types and if wishing to change from conventional to OAT type the cooling system should be cleaned as specified by VP. ( It involves a clean with oxalic acid followed by neutralisation and costs a small fortune if done by a dealer)
Ian_Rob
Well-known member
Happened to watch an old Wheeler Dealers yesterday during which they they replaced the antifreeze in an old Triumph with a non-water based alternative that ‘would never need changing’. Is similar antifreeze available for marine engines and is it ever used….? Just curious.
VicS
Well-known member
Possible contamination with sea water may be a problem. Not so much from the water but from chloride and corrosion point of view.
Routine cleaning of the heat exchanger may need the coolant to be drained anyway, therefore not much advantage.
thinwater
Well-known member
This has been around for ~ 25 years without gaining serious traction. I've tested samples. Without going into the engineering in depth, ask yourself why it is not factory fill on Mercedes etc. Suffice to say there are disadvantageous and the the advantages are overstated.
billyfish
Active member
I thought you couldn't change to new long life because it would knacker o rings pipe work ect. Found the container I used 2 years ago that's where it said replace after 2 years I guess that's because of the inhibitors not to stop it freezing part not working . Only looked at it because it got to minus 5 last night. Anyway couldn't get any today so will do tomorrow.
ChromeDome
Well-known member
It's a bit like engine oil.
Check the manual for coolant/type requirements.
Then decide on standard or LongLife version (any brand that meets or exceeds reqs.)
Dilute (plain water) as indicated on the label on the can and fill the engine.
I change annually because I collect the drained amount and use it for winter heating of the seawater side.
To me, the age of the fluid is more important than the engine hours because the properties "wear off".
Note: Despite popular belief, colour is not a unique identifier of type
Check the manual for coolant/type requirements.
Then decide on standard or LongLife version (any brand that meets or exceeds reqs.)
Dilute (plain water) as indicated on the label on the can and fill the engine.
I change annually because I collect the drained amount and use it for winter heating of the seawater side.
To me, the age of the fluid is more important than the engine hours because the properties "wear off".
Note: Despite popular belief, colour is not a unique identifier of type
billyfish
Active member
I know , so many types now...use to be just antifreeze mostly blue.
ChromeDome
Well-known member
Many new materials in modern engines - plus a desire to lure owners into authorized workshops "to be safe"
thinwater
Well-known member
The original extended life formulas (Dexcool) have been reformulated to eliminate two problems:
(Yes, I was involved with ASTM and several blenders through the testing and reformulation process.)
- o-ring and hose deterioration
- The need to chemically clean when changing to avoid unprotected areas that could form. The old advice to clean with inhibited oxalic acid or similar is out of date and it is no longer recommended by those in close touch with the newer formulations.
(Yes, I was involved with ASTM and several blenders through the testing and reformulation process.)
Momac
Well-known member
I may be wrong but think the antifreeze part is long lasting and the corrosion inhibitor part is less long lived.
Annual coolant change seems a bit excessive while every two years seems right .
I see a lot of rusty coloured stained header tanks on pictures of boats advertised for sale which suggests people are prone to leaving it too long.
Annual coolant change seems a bit excessive while every two years seems right .
I see a lot of rusty coloured stained header tanks on pictures of boats advertised for sale which suggests people are prone to leaving it too long.
thinwater
Well-known member
The new inhibitors really do last 5 years and much more (it is both age and hours).
If you see rust, you can bet dinner it is one of three things:
- Air leak. The expansion tank (cars and boats) purpose is to keep oxygen out of the system. Another source of oxygen is a leak in the head gasket (exaust into the coolant). It really takes VERY little O2 to consume additives and greatly accelerate corrosion. Oxygen will cause the glycol to oxidize to glycolic acid, the pH will drop, and the coolant will become very corrosive. A pH test is good way to check for this (compare to the start value, which varies with the coolant type). Also bubbles in the expansion tank.
- Floating ground. Coolant is an electricity, it is circulated, and so it can generate a small electric current which can be drained by proper grounds on all parts of the cooling system, incliding the calorifier. Same problem on cars, some times coming from an improper fan replacement.
- Seawater contamination. Salt is really, really bad for freshwater cool engines. You either have to test or change the coolant every year. I would test every year, but I'm a lab guy.
