Another lost keel.

[flaming]

Sailor dies after yacht overturns off Queensland coast

Another lost keel, another fatality.

However, what, to me at least, makes this still more worrying is that the boat was on its way to compete in a race, and it is reported had undergone the sort of "mandatory keel inspection" that has been brought in here. Obviously it may yet come out that they hit a container or a whale or something, but if not then this is not a good look for the effectiveness of that inspection.

 

[Ingwe]

As far as I am aware the "keel inspections" are effectively only checking for damage, which on an older boat with a keel with a very narrow section probably isn't going to be enough, as some of the very aggresively deep keels with a very small cross section blade attaching to a large bulb at the bottom are probably now getting to the point where they are suffering from metal fatigue so they may need to introduce additional compulsory ultra sound checks every few years for the most at risk boats. Probably not going to be a massive problem over here though as IRC has always discouraged that type of keel so there aren't too many around.

 

[doris]

Looking at the shape of the hull it’s not a new boat. It’ll be interesting to see just what the enquiry outcome is. Doesn’t appear to have ripped of a la Cheeky Rafeki which was all down to old fibre glass and delamination. This really looks like the keel snapped which implies a major grounding at some time. I can’t remember that happening before. (Now wait to ge flamed!)
Let’s wait.
Maybe I’ll just get my coat.

 

[dunedin]

Very Sad for the lost crew member.

But a rather emotive thread title - “another” lost keel. Not exactly a common occurrence, and needs some context - is it a one off race boat, for example.
More boats been lost to Orcas than keel loss in Europe in recent years.

 

[awol]

Very Sad for the lost crew member.

But a rather emotive thread title - “another” lost keel. Not exactly a common occurrence, and needs some context - is it a one off race boat, for example.
More boats been lost to Orcas than keel loss in Europe in recent years.

It is the 2nd time it has happened to this boat - so "another" could be apposite.

 

[flaming]

Very Sad for the lost crew member.

But a rather emotive thread title - “another” lost keel. Not exactly a common occurrence, and needs some context - is it a one off race boat, for example.
More boats been lost to Orcas than keel loss in Europe in recent years.

No, it's depressingly common.

Since the 80s there have been over 75 reported total keel failures, and now 29 deaths as a result.

And yes, I am exactly talking about race boats, and the regulations that were brought in following the Cheeky Rafiki (and other) incident and how they seem to have failed to prevent this one. This being, of course, the race boat forum... If you sail a fairly conservative cruiser, sure not much of a worry. But not everyone does.

 

[flaming]

As far as I am aware the "keel inspections" are effectively only checking for damage, which on an older boat with a keel with a very narrow section probably isn't going to be enough, as some of the very aggresively deep keels with a very small cross section blade attaching to a large bulb at the bottom are probably now getting to the point where they are suffering from metal fatigue so they may need to introduce additional compulsory ultra sound checks every few years for the most at risk boats. Probably not going to be a massive problem over here though as IRC has always discouraged that type of keel so there aren't too many around.

There's a few to be fair. In the early 2000s to about 2012 there was a trend to T keels under IRC. Beneteau First 35 and 40 had T keels as standard for example. And anyone who'd ever seen a Corby out of the water will be very familiar with the skinny foil, massive bulb thing. And to an extent they're coming back. The Farr X2 (one of which famously lost its keel) has a T keel, as does the Dehler 30 and a host of new high performance shorthanded boats.

 

[flaming]

Looking at the shape of the hull it’s not a new boat. It’ll be interesting to see just what the enquiry outcome is. Doesn’t appear to have ripped of a la Cheeky Rafeki which was all down to old fibre glass and delamination. This really looks like the keel snapped which implies a major grounding at some time. I can’t remember that happening before. (Now wait to ge flamed!)
Let’s wait.
Maybe I’ll just get my coat.

There's more than a few occurances of keels just snapping. Showtime, the Kerr 40 for example. Bounder, Hooligan, at least 1 Imoca.... That's the ones that come immediately to mind.

Most of which have the common factor of work carried out on the keel.

 

[doris]

There's a few to be fair. In the early 2000s to about 2012 there was a trend to T keels under IRC. Beneteau First 35 and 40 had T keels as standard for example. And anyone who'd ever seen a Corby out of the water will be very familiar with the skinny foil, massive bulb thing. And to an extent they're coming back. The Farr X2 (one of which famously lost its keel) has a T keel, as does the Dehler 30 and a host of new high performance shorthanded boats.

So do IMOCAs but since the keel has been standardised the regular keel loses have ceased, as far as I know. In view of the loads etc it does prove a point.
I stand corrected about keels snapping.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The Queensland Police did not identify the vessel, but Australian sailing community forums and the boat's previous owner named the yacht as the Sayer 11 racing boat Runaway, a carbon fiber high-performance monohull designed for the 2003 Melbourne-Osaka Race. The vessel reportedly sustained keel damage once before, during the 2007 edition of the same event.

One Dead in Yacht Capsizing Near Great Barrier Reef

Speculation it hit a whale on the boats FB page. Log into Facebook

 

[flaming]

So do IMOCAs but since the keel has been standardised the regular keel loses have ceased, as far as I know. In view of the loads etc it does prove a point.
I stand corrected about keels snapping.

Yes, the IMOCA keel has been a success. However, the care and attention the teams give their keels is not really analogous to the average 3rd owner of a race boat on a bit of a budget...

 

[flaming]

Speculation it hit a whale on the boats FB page. Log into Facebook

It will be interesting to see what the crew themselves say.

 

[doris]

Yes, the IMOCA keel has been a success. However, the care and attention the teams give their keels is not really analogous to the average 3rd owner of a race boat on a bit of a budget...

Fair comment but now that extreme engineering now longer applies to IMOCAs there’s been a serious improvement. Ditto with rigs.
Since I will be getting a T keel at the end of the year maybe I should pay more attention!

 

[flaming]

Fair comment but now that extreme engineering now longer applies to IMOCAs there’s been a serious improvement. Ditto with rigs.
Since I will be getting a T keel at the end of the year maybe I should pay more attention!

Somewhat bigger footprint on yours!

 

[ylop]

it is reported had undergone the sort of "mandatory keel inspection" that has been brought in here. Obviously it may yet come out that they hit a container or a whale or something, but if not then this is not a good look for the effectiveness of that inspection.

thats the problems with any inspection regime isn't it?
- the moment after the inspection is complete something else can happen that makes it meaningless; inspection "certificates" are valid for a period of time (2 years?)... although it needs reinspected after any grounding (which requires the operators to be upfront about that).
- the inspection is only as good as the technique, and the inspector
- the inspector can't easily predict future degradation over an an indeterminate period, with the varying ways/conditions a particular boat may be used in.

The real test for an inspection regime is how often does it uncover defects that would otherwise have been ignored.

 

[doris]

Somewhat bigger footprint on yours!

 

[B27]

View attachment 178835

One Dead in Yacht Capsizing Near Great Barrier Reef

Speculation it hit a whale on the boats FB page. Log into Facebook

20 years of rock'n'roll?

High Performance 'stuff' does not last forever.

FFS, my floating caravan is 30 years old and critical parts of that are showing their age.

Also 'the ocean' is still big and as dangerous as you make it. We choose to go out there and take risks.

 

[Neeves]

This link offers a photgraph of the upturned hull but it not of sufficient quality to to see detail of the area of the break.

Yacht loses its Keel

Jonathan

Edit

This appears to be a link to the same Runaway after earlier, a lot earlier, keel damage.

Runaway retires - COCORIN interland leads

The script makes no sense as mention is made that it was hoped repairs could be made such that the yacht could continue to race but because resin takes time to set off there would be delays.

If this is the same Runaway then earlier mention of 'keel' damage might actually refer to hull damage (as a result of possibly - the keel hitting something).

I had a quick search but could find no images of Runaway with detail of the keel.

Further edit

Historic keel failures are detailed here

Are we facing a keel and rudder failure ‘time-bomb’? - Kraken Yachts

 

[flaming]

thats the problems with any inspection regime isn't it?
- the moment after the inspection is complete something else can happen that makes it meaningless; inspection "certificates" are valid for a period of time (2 years?)... although it needs reinspected after any grounding (which requires the operators to be upfront about that).
- the inspection is only as good as the technique, and the inspector
- the inspector can't easily predict future degradation over an an indeterminate period, with the varying ways/conditions a particular boat may be used in.

The real test for an inspection regime is how often does it uncover defects that would otherwise have been ignored.

That's all absolutely true.

It is not a good look for a new inspection regime though...

It has certainly made me think about who and how my next inspection gets done.

 

[Tranona]

Historic keel failures are detailed here

Are we facing a keel and rudder failure ‘time-bomb’? - Kraken Yachts

You have to be careful with this - partly because the author is using it to promote his boat which has (like mine) and many other older boats an encapsulated ballast keel but mainly because even a cursory analysis shows that the vast majority of boats listed are racing boats (and many canting keels) and only a handful are modern production boats. Even then collision is as common a cause as possible structural failure. With the possible exception of the Oyster none of the failures have been on boats that would be considered competitors to the Kraken.

Out of that long list only 4 boats that suffered structural failure resulting in keel loss (2 of which followed collision) were designed to the rules for keel structures demanded by the RCD in 1997 despite the fact that 100s of thousands of boats of that type are in use world wide. Even for boats built before that failures are rare and likewise usually the result of grounding.

Rudders (which the headline refers to) are a different matter and there is a lack of data to determine the extent of failures although reports and observation suggest that failure is again more likely caused by collision rather than a structural failure under normal sailing mode.