Angle of dangle

[nelly2]

My Swin Ranger 22 had a furling genoa installed by the previous owner. The sheet goes to a single point. This sheeting point is obviously incorrect as I can always find ways to improve (Barber Hauler with variation) To make the Genoa a little more efficient I am trying to determine where to put a track and how long to make this track but there doesn’t seem to be any information available to predict the best compromise. Does the group have any words of wisdom to offer as to where to place the track and how much track to use. I am almost at the point where I will try and find some "hanks" (I hope that’s the correct term) to install the old jib to the foil (rotastay). At least the jib will then be able to work inside of the shrouds giving at least some windward performance.
Any help much
appreiacted
neil /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[damo]

Generally the sheet should bisect the angle between leech and foot, so this should give you the mid point of your track.

The sheeting angle will depend on the size of the sail and the conditions, but you won't be able to bring it in closer than the spreaders anyway, with an overlapping foresail. If the track is well outboard you could achieve tighter angle with a barber hauler if your deck layout permits.

There is no room for a track on my boat, so Warriors have the sheet turned through a block on the toe rail, then forward to the winch. A tackle on the sheet further forward, to the toe rail, can alter the vertical angle of the sheet so achieving the same result as moving a car on a track.

 

[roger]

Generally the optimum sheeting point moves forward as you roll a sail up. The effect is greater with a full genoa than a high cut jib.
Theres no point in worrying too much about sail setting niceties if youve rolled up the sail so much its a bggy mess so the track length may be quite short.
On a reasonable day try out your barber hauler system till youve got a well set full jib and mark where the jib sheet would hit the deck if it continued straight from the sail instead of going round the BH. Repeat with the smalles practicable sail. This gives you the fore and aft points for the track. Where you put it laterally is up to you.
Hope this helps.

 

[Lakesailor]

Try just holding and tightening the sheet in your hand and running it along the proposed track position. When your're too far back the foot will harden and the leech open. When you're too far forward the leech will harden and the foot will bag. Try it for the full sail and a well furled sail and you've got the track extremities, add a bit and you've covered it all.

 

[William_H]

You have discovered the limitations of furling jib.
It is nice to be able to roll the jib to the size you need but the sheeting point needs to change for windward work. If this involves crawling along the leeward deck to move the sheeting blocks then you are negating the value of cockpit jib size adjustment. Yes I agree it is critical.
For smaller jibs (furled) it is good to be able to sheet from a point closer to the middle of the boat which may mean sheeting inside the stays, (compared to larger sail wider sheeting angle.)
I often use a tiny jib and have found it convenient to attach 2 sheets for each side. One goes inside the stays to the best sheeting point on the track the other lighter rope goes to the toe rail and well forward. The latter is brilliant for reaching and for running it does nearly as well as a pole. The down side is the potential for tangling the not used sheet. (yes it does point better with inside stay sheeting)
Back to your problem there would be a lot to be said for having a sheeting point well aft (not on a track and using a barber hauler (a rope with pulley on the end through which the jib sheet passes) to a pulley well forward so that you pull in the main sheet as tight as necessary then adjust the barber hauler to pull the sheet down to the best angle for beating. Down more for a small amount of exposed jib. Preferably not used for full jib. The only problem is that when you tack you must pull the released sheet through 2 pulleys so more drag. Alternatively you can have extra light sheets attached to the clew as I described above on my boat again pulling the sheet down for small jib. You could try to get the extra sheet or barber hauler pulling from a pint nearer the centre of the boat for tighter sheeting angle and have yet another similar system for wide sheeting angle. (till eventually it becomes absurd)
So I suggest before you screw down a track try these other systems which only require a shacklle to an Ali toe rail or a pair of saddles screwed into the deck. You may choose to do without a track.

Or another alternative if you have a track fit a pulley system so the car can be slid forward or aft remotely. I know on my 21fter when sailing hard you don't want to be on the leeward side trying to adjust locking jib pulley cars. good luck olewill

 

[damo]

I have been wrestling with a solution to my boat's problem with sheeting angles - mainly for a well-reefed genoa or a storm sail - and thought of using two sets of sheets as you describe. Glad to know it is possible!

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

[ QUOTE ]
when sailing hard you don't want to be on the leeward side trying to adjust locking jib pulley cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

William, we adjust ours on the windward side and then tack. There's no way I'd try to unlock a fully loaded genoa car and, even if I did, it would be nigh impossible to shift it forward.

 

[Lakesailor]

I assume you meant to answer to Nelly2. I don't have any problems. Whilst all you say is interesting I think towable sheet cars would answer his problem.
You can infinitely adjust them and the method I suggested would indicate the best position for the track.

 

[simonfraser]

my geona car has a rope foreward, small block, then back to a cleat, adjusts very well, 15 sqm sail.

 

[nelly2]

Thanks everone for the input, clever lot you all are!!!!
Looking for the best option appears to be a shortish track 1yd and an improved barber system (interestingly works best when connected to the base of the main mast and not on the rail appears to be the norm)
Thanks again
Happy sailing!

 

[Norman_E]

Same arrangement on my boat, but ropes come back via jammers to the coachroof winches. Works very well.

 

[William_H]

High Nelly2 yes the ropes to the mainmast give good pointing while the ropes to the gunwhale give good reaching and running so you need both except it gets too compliicated. olewill

 

[Seastar]

Thanks for all the info oldwill
Looks like I need another track running across the ship to locate the barber hauler! Maybe a rigid sheet would work better 
It appear to me that the barber hauler accounts for the biggest improvement, perhaps I should forget the traditional track and secure the genoa sheet as far aft as possible then control with a barber hauler, I will try a few experiments and report the results to the group.
Thanks again
Neil (nelly2)

 

[temptress]

[ QUOTE ]
..a shortish track 1yd and an improved barber system ......

[/ QUOTE ]

that seems very short to me. what is the J measurment of the boat? It may be better to fit a longer track just in case. It will be much the same effort and cost and you then will have more options.