Angel weight

clyst

clyst

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 Aug 2002
Messages
3,233
Visit site
Hi all

Whilst cleaning/rearranging the anchor locker I noticed that the anchor "angel" weighs 30lb. Iv always thought it was a bit heavy. The boat is a Nauticat S34 . What does the panel think? Needlessly too heavy ? just about right? Or can be lighter .
Ta
 
Angel weight should be as heavy as possible commensurate with your being able to handle it. So I would imagine 15kg to be on the limit for one person to manage by hand. In a blow it will not seem heavy enough until you try to deploy or retrieve when it will seem to be far too heavy. I would think 2 at half the weight might be more manageable. olewill
 
Without wishing to turn this in to a controversial thread I have been convinced that the argument for weight as a method of dampening snatch at anchor via a catenary is flawed. Peter Smith, blue water high latitude sailer and designer of the Rocna has written a detailed article on the subject here: http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php

I'me convinced that the argument is about strength of chain not necessarily weight and following this strategy an anchor chum is just excess weight carried on a boat for no reason at all.......

Thought provoking?

Rob
 
Robih said:
Without wishing to turn this in to a controversial thread I have been convinced that the argument for weight as a method of dampening snatch at anchor via a catenary is flawed. Peter Smith, blue water high latitude sailer and designer of the Rocna has written a detailed article on the subject here: http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php

I'me convinced that the argument is about strength of chain not necessarily weight and following this strategy an anchor chum is just excess weight carried on a boat for no reason at all.......

Thought provoking?

Rob
Click to expand...
Well we have all heard about Rocna anchors--- flawed like that argument i suspect!!:)
Personally i would go for the added weight of the chum . one does not have to use it in light anchor situations
. But if used then at least it can be recovered on its own which leaves less weight to pull up if like me you do not have a windlass
I also use chain plus rope so the chum is very useful

Angels are not so good though, as they are light as designed to fly. So they can flutter over ones head when slightly inebriated
 
My anchor angel is possibly about the same weight and as others have said it could be heavier in a blow. On my chain / rope set up, it works very well. I have though made a lighter one which is on board as well ...............
 
I'm sure that Peter Smith will come up with an expensive new generation Angel which is made from PVC. I'll stick to the notion that the heavier the better.
 
Thanks for your input chaps . It seems that my weight is about right . Its just a bit of a bu**er to manhandle to "launch" and recover due to pulpit etc . The good thing is that its made up of 3 4.5 kg plastic encased lifting weights" rodded "together .
 
I found an anchor angel worked very well for me.
I found fairly heavy worked well, but the point is it's near enough the boat that you are not lifting it at the same time as the chain or anchor.
I think I had about 25lbs of lead on a 12m boat of light to moderate displacement.

I'm not offering an opinion on survival anchoring in high latitudes, more about a quiet night in Cornwall.
It improved the motion of the boat and holding, using a mostly rope rode.
YMMV
 
lw395 said:
It improved the motion of the boat and holding, using a mostly rope rode.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that in those circumstances a chum is worth having. It is known that they also help to prevent the tendency of boats anchored on rope rodes to react to every minor wind shift, which often leads them to collide with boats on all-chain rodes. For anchoring on chain with a good, modern anchor I believe a chum to be totally unnecessary. Although, I have used one when moored alongside a wall in big ranges of tide to keep the boat snugly against the wall.
 
With 10+ m of tidal range there are times when I do not have quite as much chain available as i would like, that is when my anchor Chum comes in handy. It allows me to use a rope riser that is only a little longer than the depth at HW knowing that there is a big mud weight on the bottom, backed up with a considerable length of chain & a well dug in anchor. Despite the strong currents, the 45lb chum never moves very far when the tide turns.
 
Robih said:
the argument for weight as a method of dampening snatch at anchor via a catenary is flawed.
I'me convinced that the argument is about strength of chain not necessarily weight and following this strategy an anchor chum is just excess weight carried on a boat for no reason at all.......
Click to expand...

If that 'twer the only reason for using one you might be right!

Mine gets used:
When the swinging space doesn't allow me to put out as much chain as I would have liked.
On my kedge which only has 10 mtrs of chain, then it's anchor plat.
And as Vyv - when moored alongside a wall in big ranges of tide to keep the boat snugly against the wall.
 
LadyInBed said:
If that 'twer the only reason for using one you might be right!

Mine gets used:
When the swinging space doesn't allow me to put out as much chain as I would have liked.
On my kedge which only has 10 mtrs of chain, then it's anchor plat.
And as Vyv - when moored alongside a wall in big ranges of tide to keep the boat snugly against the wall.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, can we explore how it helps when you can't put enough chain out? I guess the idea is that the chum keeps a more horizontal pull on the anchor by weighing the chain down at the point of chum attachment to the chain? Is that right? Peter Smith's argument is that this is only effective in light winds, once you're in a decent breeze the anchor rode is tensioned straight so any benefit of a more horizontal pull is lost at exactly the time when it is most needed. So how does a chum help when anchored in a short rode situation?
 
Robih said:
I guess the idea is that the chum keeps a more horizontal pull on the anchor by weighing the chain down at the point of chum attachment to the chain? Is that right?
Click to expand...
Yes
Peter Smith's argument is that this is only effective in light winds
Click to expand...
Yes
once you're in a decent breeze the anchor rode is tensioned straight so any benefit of a more horizontal pull is lost
Click to expand...
Yes

I thought this thread was about the weight of the chum for the size of boat?
 
Any mathematician will tell you it has to be infinitely windy for the rode to be actually straight.
This is Practical boat odour.
I tried it, it helped.
If you prefer the flawed theoretical thoughts of a purveyor of flawed anchors.....
 
lw395 said:
Any mathematician will tell you it has to be infinitely windy for the rode to be actually straight.
This is Practical boat odour.
I tried it, it helped.
If you prefer the flawed theoretical thoughts of a purveyor of flawed anchors.....
Click to expand...

Practical Boat Odour?

I'd rather not listen to mathematicians when it comes to anchoring, that all sounds a little theoretical to me.
 
Of course even in the strongest wind there will always be some catenary. Any argument against an anchor angel would follow as the same argument against using chain instead of rope. Yes the catenary as much as there is will always improve the angle of pull on the anchor. This must obviously be as close to horizontal as possible. We pull upwards to dislodge the anchor don't we. It is the reason why more rode out equals better holding.
So a well placed anchor angel must be equivalent to a heavier chain. Except that you can add to it and remove it as a separate operation to lifting anchor. good luck olewill
 
clyst said:
... that the anchor "angel" weighs 30lb. Iv always thought it was a bit heavy. The boat is a Nauticat S34 .....
Ta
Click to expand...

30 lbs (13 kg) is probably on the light side for reasonable conditions where an anchor chum might be used. Searush's 45 lbs (20 kg) is by far a better weight. Manual handling controls implemented for HSE purposes to protect personnel from lifting excessive weights limits lifting weight to 55 lbs (25 kg), which would be a bit of a hassle on a moving boat, but possible. I can handle my 60 lbs (27 kg) CQR from the bow locker, under the pullpit and into the stem head fitting, so rigging up a 55 lbs chum would be possible without too much strain.

The comments below and the picture are from West Bound Adventure Sailing School's web page http://www.westboundadventures.co.uk/articles/anchoring4.html The link takes you to their page which has other associated anchoring information.

The weight which some yachtsmen send down the anchor cable has a variety of names: Angel, Sentinel, Chum, Buddy, Kellet, Rode Rider.

In the sketch on the right a yacht (LOA. 10 metres) is at anchor in 5 metres of water and the wind is strong enough for the cable to be fully stretched. The cable is marked to scale at 10 metres. The wisdom of letting out more cable in a blow can be seen by comparing the angle of the shank of the anchor above the sea bed at scope 3, scope 5 and at scope 7.

The lower part of the sketch illustrates the effect of sending an angel down the cable at scope 5. Sending it two thirds of the distance towards the anchor is illustrated in red. Sending it one third of the distance is illustrated in green. In either case note the very short distance which the bow of the yacht has moved towards the anchor. In light winds the yacht should dance around the angel but when it blows hard it will eventually dance around the anchor. How hard does it need to blow? The answer to that depends on the scope deployed and the weight of your angel!

In a crowded anchorage an angel can reduce your swinging circle by deploying it closer to the bow but this will only work in light to moderate winds. In strong winds it can be deployed closer to the anchor to improve the effectiveness of your cable by keeping the anchor at a smaller angle to the sea bed. In this situation the angel needs to be really heavy to be effective and will never be any more effective than the equivelant weight of chain. So if you have chain in your locker which has not yet been deployed let it all out before you think about sending down an angel in a blow.

A heavy angel is not easy to deploy. I have experimented with different methods. In the photo I have anchor chain bound up as an improvised angel weighing 35kg. Difficult to deploy even more difficult to recover! If it�s blowing up in a crowded anchorage and you are worried about swinging circles then my advice is simple: Escape now before it�s too late!

Do Angels delight? I think the answer is only sometimes!
Click to expand...

8647885920_edb63f8cd3.jpg
[/url]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top